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Old 04-23-2019, 08:33 AM   #881
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Has he been running one?

Seems the only people in this race are Biden, Bernie, Pete, and Harris.
Elizabeth Warren is running harder than any of them and with more concrete plans (it's just that all the intangibles are so unfortunate).

I'm less and less excited about Biden. I really wish he'd sit this one out.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:18 AM   #882
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I'm not voting for Joe Biden. Same old white guy forever politician. Even more that that, it angers me that he was so reluctant to admit that his unwanted touching is wrong. So focused on his "intentions" that are completely irrelevant. It's about how the recipient feels. He seems arrogant and out of touch about all of it.

I think he probably still doesn't think it's wrong.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:22 AM   #883
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Elizabeth Warren is running harder than any of them and with more concrete plans (it's just that all the intangibles are so unfortunate).

I'm less and less excited about Biden. I really wish he'd sit this one out.
yea i kinda wish Warren was a more natural politician. and i readily understand that it's absurd that shit like that matters - but for the general electorate, it does. although perhaps after having a reality show buffoon for 4 years, the nation just might be ready for a boring professor.

and she is dead on balls accurate with this quote on impeachment

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“If there are people in the House or the Senate who want to say that’s what a president can do when the president is being investigated for his own wrongdoings or when a foreign government attacks our country, then they should have to take that vote and live with it for the rest of their lives."
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:23 AM   #884
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I watched the town halls last night, couldn't stay awake for all of Mayor Pete's because it started at 11. He's the only one who disagreed with Sanders about convicted felons who are still incarcerated being able to vote.

I don't think they should be able to either.

The rest is just kind of overload to me at this point. I've chosen who I couldn't vote for in the primary and that's it.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:47 AM   #885
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yea i kinda wish Warren was a more natural politician. and i readily understand that it's absurd that shit like that matters - but for the general electorate, it does. although perhaps after having a reality show buffoon for 4 years, the nation just might be ready for a boring professor.
But we all know the reality, dating back to JFK, is that appearance and charisma etc. are a huge factor in getting elected.

So love her or hate her, Liz Warren is going to have a real tough time with a national electorate due to her mannerisms, and her new year's beer video only served to accentuate the things that will work against her.

Similarly to how:
Michael Dukakis' campaign became DOA after posing for the infamous tank photo.
Paul Tsongas, though he clearly had the best grasp of economic policy, stood no chance in the 1992 primaries because sounded like Elmer Fudd when he spoke and had recently battled cancer (which ultimately claimed his life 5 years later).
Al Gore lost all early momentum against W at the first debate when he was a sweaty mess.
Chris Christie couldn't keep his hands out of the M&M box.
Ted Cruz just looked like the biggest creep any of us have ever seen (that was until he grew that beard and looked like an even bigger creep).

The Dems need a candidate with a combination of charisma, intelligence and a strong vision. Obama had this. Of the 19 in the field currently, there's only a few that come close to the right combo.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:56 AM   #886
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To be fair, the current president has the appearance of a moldy, dried up tangerine wearing his big brother's ill fitting hand me down suits.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:57 AM   #887
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I watched the town halls last night, couldn't stay awake for all of Mayor Pete's because it started at 11. He's the only one who disagreed with Sanders about convicted felons who are still incarcerated being able to vote.

I don't think they should be able to either.

The rest is just kind of overload to me at this point. I've chosen who I couldn't vote for in the primary and that's it.

How come? Especially regarding the large portion of people incarcerated for what are minor drug related convictions etc.
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:03 AM   #888
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For me so far the ones who have the right combo are Mayor Pete and Senators Harris and Booker.

Mayor Pete has the appeal for me as coming across as authentic and natural. Even though he's so smart he never comes across as condescending. And yes I like that his personal life and orientation makes him more empathetic to the struggles of others. His answer to that question last night was touching. I also admire that he served in the military.

I think the way Cory Booker grew up makes him more genuine and empathetic too. I think Senator Harris is very impressive.

Yes unfortunately intangibles really matter. Charisma and likeability matter, even though some elected someone I consider to be the most unlikable non charismatic President of my lifetime.
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:04 AM   #889
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I think there should be some restrictions in place, but for the most part convicts should be allowed to vote.

I'm ok with withholding voting rights from those who commit crimes against the government, or for capital crimes. But someone convicted of a drug offense that just happens to be a felony should in no way lose his or her voting rights.
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:08 AM   #890
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How come? Especially regarding the large portion of people incarcerated for what are minor drug related convictions etc.
They were talking last night about rapists and those guilty of sexual assault. And people like the Boston Marathon bomber. They shouldn't be allowed to vote imo. You give up that right when you commit certain crimes.

I don't consider minor drug related convictions etc to be disqualifying. But then how would you go about letting them vote while others can't, I don't know. Don't know enough about it. Criminal justice reform in general has to come before all of that, so that those people don't languish in prison for minor offenses.
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Old 04-23-2019, 10:33 AM   #891
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I'm not voting for Joe Biden. Same old white guy forever politician. Even more that that, it angers me that he was so reluctant to admit that his unwanted touching is wrong. So focused on his "intentions" that are completely irrelevant. It's about how the recipient feels. He seems arrogant and out of touch about all of it.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:06 AM   #892
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In a perfect world, I’d be leaning Warren right now, too. For the reasons I was pro-Hillary — she’s calm, reasoned, smart, and really fucking prepared with overall values I can get behind even if I may have disagreements.

But I think we’ve learned the hard way that isn’t enough.

I also think Pelosi is taking the right track on impeachment.

Since the Mueller report even in redacted form laid out 10 instances of obstruction (10 slam dunks, if you will), let’s excruciatingly investigate each one of those as we ruminate over impeachment. Let’s be certain. Let’s air every last item of dirty laundry.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:43 AM   #893
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If you actually read the report - he lays out on like page 2 or 3 that he's not reporting on collusion, only on coordination and conspiracy. Mueller readily says that the Trump Campaign had regular contacts with Russians, and accepted and encouraged help. He only states that the two groups didn't sit down to come up with this plan in advance. There was no mutual advanced plotting by both sides, and the campaign didn't assist in the actual hacking - but everything else? All true. It even mentions that Cohen actually sought information on the pee tape, but was told (by a Russian) that the tape was fake. But, uh, why would you go looking for it unless you had reason to believe that it could actually exist?

The report truly is damning. So if they want to have open hearings first to get all the information out and public vs just a report that most people won't read? Sure, fine.

But when it's done, they need to push forward with impeachment. They can not allow this to go forward without doing something. This type or behavior can not be normalized, because the next Trump might not be such a bumbling idiot.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:09 PM   #894
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i've changed my mind after some thought and now i think impeachment proceedings do need to happen. it's a risky strategy for all the reasons i mentioned last week, but this needs to all be investigated fully and publicly and that's not going to happen otherwise.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:18 PM   #895
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It even mentions that Cohen actually sought information on the pee tape, but was told (by a Russian) that the tape was fake. But, uh, why would you go looking for it unless you had reason to believe that it could actually exist?
.



These are the headlines we need.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:34 PM   #896
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These are the headlines we need.


stopped flow... heh
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:39 PM   #897
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Buried in a footnote in Section II B of Volume II of the redacted Mueller report is a single reference to supposed kompromat the Russian government was rumored to have on the president — the infamous “pee tape.” The report confirms that then-FBI director James Comey briefed President-elect Trump about the report in January 2017, but it also reveals that the Trump campaign was privately aware as early as October 2016 — more than two months before BuzzFeed News published the Steele dossier — that embarrassing tapes of then-candidate Donald Trump might exist in Russia.

According to the report, on October 30th, 2016, Trump’s private attorney and fixer Michael Cohen received a text from a Russian businessman involved in the Trump Tower Moscow deal, in progress for more than a year. “Stopped flow of tapes from Russia but not sure if there’s anything else. Just so you know….” Giorgi Rtskhiladze wrote to Cohen. Cohen told investigators he spoke to Trump about the issue after receiving the texts from Rtskhiladze.

Rtskhiladze later admitted he had been told the tapes were fake, but he did not communicate that to Cohen, the report says.


Rtskhiladze’s description of the tapes’ content tracks with the unverified information included in the Steele dossier, which claimed that Trump watched Russian prostitutes urinate in a Moscow hotel room in 2013. “Rtskhiladze said ‘tapes’ referred to compromising tapes of Trump rumored to be held by persons associated with the Russian real estate conglomerate Crocus Group, which had helped host the 2013 Miss Universe Pageant in Russia.”

The Crocus Group’s president is Aras Agalarov. It was Agalarov’s son, the Russian pop star Emin Agalarov, who brokered the June 9th, 2016 Trump Tower meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a Kremlin-linked lawyer, who promised to deliver “official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary.”

Besides the Trump Tower Moscow project, the report also says Rtskhiladze was involved in discussions for a Trump-branded project in Astana, Kazakhstan, and had previously been involved in a development deal with the Trump Organization in Batumi, Georgia. Separately, the report says Rtskhiladze had worked on business ventures in Moscow, including a licensing deal with the Agalarov-owned Crocus Group.

According to the report, Cohen forwarded a preliminary design study for the Trump Moscow project to Rtskhiladze, in September 2015 writing, “I look forward to your reply about this spectacular project in Moscow.” Rtskhiladze forwarded Cohen’s email to an associate and wrote, “[i]f we could organize the meeting in New York at the highest level of the Russian Government and Mr. Trump this project would definitely receive the worldwide attention.”

In his book, A Higher Loyalty, James Comey wrote that after he briefed Trump, the then-president-elect asked him to investigate and prove the report was a lie. “He brought up what he called the ‘golden showers thing’…adding that it bothered him if there was ‘even a one percent chance’ his wife, Melania, thought it was true,” Comey writes. “He just rolled on, unprompted, explaining why it couldn’t possibly be true, ending by saying he was thinking of asking me to investigate the allegation to prove it was a lie. I said it was up to him.”
so this pretty much says that Cohen sought out tapes, was told that the flow (heh) of tapes from Moscow was stopped, and was never told that the tapes were probably fake.

but again... why would you go looking for something if it didn't happen?
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:06 PM   #898
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but again... why would you go looking for something if it didn't happen?
In this instance I'm guessing it's because Michael Cohen thought it was at least plausible that it happened so he went about his usual business (cleaning the poopy mess).
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:09 PM   #899
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In this instance I'm guessing it's because Michael Cohen thought it was at least plausible that it happened so he went about his usual business (cleaning the poopy mess).
That's fair.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:31 PM   #900
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what's this about a poopy mess? i thought we were talking about a pee tape.
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