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Old 04-18-2019, 06:30 PM   #761
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He should be impeached, and so should the attorney general.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:31 PM   #762
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I agree with just using it all against Trump rather than impeachment. Impeachment just plays right into his narcissistic victimhood.
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Personally I think he should be impeached, but Trump is so far gone that I think impeachment might actually work in his favor politically. It's always backward logic with him. He's teflon Don.
you said much more succinctly what i was trying to say earlier. there's no doubt that he deserves impeachment and should be impeached. i just don't think it's the democrats' best option politically. replacing trump with pence really doesn't change all that much. i'd much prefer they focus totally on evicting the entire administration. but if they do move to impeach, it has to be a certainty - the house can't vote to impeach when the senate is certain to block it. all that does is give trump more campaign ammunition to make himself out to be a martyr.

another thing the democrats need to make good and goddamn sure of is that they hold the house and retake the senate next year, so that all options can be on the table immediately on the miniscule chance that he wins again.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:32 PM   #763
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Remember when the Republican party impeached Bill Clinton over obstruction of Justice and it was so distracting that they got killed in 2000?
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:39 PM   #764
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yea i do, also al gore and donald trump are totally comparable campaigners too. ralph who?
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:46 PM   #765
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:01 PM   #766
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yea i do, also al gore and donald trump are totally comparable campaigners too. ralph who?
I'm sorry I've been told over and over in here that third party candidates don't actually impact elections so I don't know who you're talking about.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:06 PM   #767
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Not since Clinton was elected, no they don’t.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:37 PM   #768
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I have no recollection
I do not recall
Wherefore art though Don Jr.
You take the fall
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:18 PM   #769
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Personally I think he should be impeached, but Trump is so far gone that I think impeachment might actually work in his favor politically. It's always backward logic with him. He's teflon Don.

In the back of my mind I hope he could be so worn down that he'd call it a day and not run again.
Agreed on all of this. If the Democrats do push for impeachment, that's going to alienate people, if they don't, that's going to frustrate supporters who will see them as weak and ineffective. They can't seem to win no matter what they do.

Personally, at this point, I think having Trump pull a Nixon and resign would be the most likely/best option. Something should happen that will force his hand and give him absolutely no choice but to resign. He could easily make a speech spinning a resignation in his favor, after all, and his supporters would eat it up, so it'd be a way for him to placate himself and his followers, and the rest of us can just focus on being happy he's finally gone, and the Democrats can more easily focus on the 2020 campaign.

And then, after he's out of office, whatever state charges/investigations are out there against him, those people can go after him on that stuff and go from there. At least that way he can potentially face punishment for something, even if it's not the big things he deserves to be held accountable for.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:23 PM   #770
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And if he wins?

Oh, well, we didn't think we should impeach then. But now that we lost we do!

This all sounds a lot like "man, something shitty is going on here but ehhhhh he's never going to win so we're not going to pursue it further or make it public. They go low we go high tee hee."
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:48 PM   #771
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For my part, like I said, I agree with MrsS that he should be impeached, and I will be completely and totally behind the Democrats doing so if they go that route. It's beyond clear there's plenty to impeach him on at this point, and somebody needs to send him a clear and strong message that he cannot get away with his shit.

I just don't know how likely that'll be to happen, is all, and it just frustrates me that if the Democrats do try and push for impeachment, there's a risk of it backfiring on them somehow. It shouldn't, and the risk alone shouldn't scare the Democrats away from doing what's right, of course, but unfortunately I can see why some are afraid it will. I do agree that most Americans are likely sick and tired of Trump and his antics-the polls have borne that out, since the highest his approval ratings ever seem to go is the low 40s at most-and I would like to think that most of them would support talk of impeachment.

But just in case that doesn't happen, just in case the Democrats don't push for that, I'm theorizing another possible route I could see all of this going instead. At this point, all I know for sure is that I want Trump gone, and preferably before 2020 at that. Whether he leaves by impeachment, resignation, or, should he still be in office next year, losing the election, I'm good with any of those options.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:52 PM   #772
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And if he wins?

Oh, well, we didn't think we should impeach then. But now that we lost we do!

This all sounds a lot like "man, something shitty is going on here but ehhhhh he's never going to win so we're not going to pursue it further or make it public. They go low we go high tee hee."
I disagree with this. No matter what, the Senate will not convict after the House impeaches. In fact, as long as McConnell is in charge in the Senate, I wouldn't be shocked if it never even came to a vote.

Why should the House expend the political capital and invite all the rage from the Trump supporter cult when it 100% will not even lead to Trump being removed from office? If I thought for a minute the Senate might convict, I'd be for it, but it's not gonna happen.

There is no path to anything tangible or practical happening in terms of removing him from office. What would the point be of the House impeaching? It would just be theater - it wouldn't do anything other than make the right hate the left more than it already does and energize Trump's base heading into an election.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:02 PM   #773
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I disagree with this. No matter what, the Senate will not convict after the House impeaches. In fact, as long as McConnell is in charge in the Senate, I wouldn't be shocked if it never even came to a vote.



Why should the House expend the political capital and invite all the rage from the Trump supporter cult when it 100% will not even lead to Trump being removed from office? If I thought for a minute the Senate might convict, I'd be for it, but it's not gonna happen.



There is no path to anything tangible or practical happening in terms of removing him from office. What would the point be of the House impeaching? It would just be theater - it wouldn't do anything other than make the right hate the left more than it already does and energize Trump's base heading into an election.
The point? The point would be doing their fucking jobs.

But you are right that the GOP is unlikely to go along. So let them hang themselves on this.

This is unreal

Democrats: let's let Mueller do his job before impeachment.

Mueller: here's a shit ton of indictments, convictions and guilty pleas, the campaign manager is in prison, there are 14 outstanding cases unrelated to my task that are still pending, the campaign knowingly accepted and helped the Russian interference campaign (but we can't indict cause Don Jr. didn't fly to Moscow to help with the hacking), and yea, I can't actually indict a sitting President, but here's a shit ton of proof on multiple clear and obvious incidents of obstruction of justice for Congress, because that's the only legal way to bring this cunt to justice.

Democrats: meh, we good.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:04 PM   #774
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You can't impeach him after 2020 if he wins because that just looks ridiculous.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:30 PM   #775
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Exactly.

You either do it now, or simply let him get away with it.
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:32 PM   #776
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Exactly.

You either do it now, or simply let him get away with it.
He gets away with it either way. The Senate will not convict. He will not be removed from office. If the House goes through with the theater of impeaching him, what happens then that stops him from 'getting away with it'?

You think I wouldn't love to see him dragged out of the WH in cuffs? I wouldn't complain if the House went through with it but I absolutely understand their reasoning for not doing it(if they don't do it).
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:34 PM   #777
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He gets away with it either way. The Senate will not convict. He will not be removed from office. If the House goes through with the theater of impeaching him, what happens then that stops him from 'getting away with it'?



You think I wouldn't love to see him dragged out of the WH in cuffs? I wouldn't complain if the House went through with it but I absolutely understand their reasoning for not doing it(if they don't do it).
But one way at least says that you're not okay with his getting away with it, and pushes the onus of responsibility onto the GOP.

The other says to a president with authoritarian tendencies that he can do whatever he wants and we won't do a thing about it, even after the guy we've been waiting for said he did it.
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:30 PM   #778
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Right now i'm leaning towards impeachment though you Dave make very salient points.

(As headache said)
Having no Official Action that says - we are drawing the line here (underline intentional ) - against the incessant lying, the courting of Russian info/actions (super oligarchs! Mr. KGB himself Putin, for criss sakes!) against Hillary, trying to fire Mueller etc further plays into his authoritarian tendencies. That's really dangerous- what will he think he can do next especially with WH officials who are now gone who put some kind of brakes him at times.

Moonlit
I will be astonished if he resigns, but maybe some kind of new crazy stuff that would lead in that direction would play out.


Truthfully each path has it's own perils.
Can Pence be impeached, too. He seems to have known a lot.
Then we might also see his authoritarian Christian Uber Right-wingers appear from under their rocks even more. A whole lot of Americans would not put up with that bi don't think. ( i hope)
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:31 PM   #779
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Moonlit
I will be astonished if he resigns, but maybe some kind of new crazy stuff that would lead in that direction would play out.
Yeah, I definitely don't think he'd do that willingly, no. Like stated, it'd have to be something that he's forced into doing, for whatever reason (something's about to come to light that's so incredibly devastating to him personally AND politically that even he can't fight or bury it, or he learns he and/or his family are about to actually face some kind of serious legal/criminal charges, or things of that sort).

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Truthfully each path has it's own perils.
Can Pence be impeached, too. He seems to have known a lot.
Then we might also see his authoritarian Christian Uber Right-wingers appear from under their rocks even more. A whole lot of Americans would not put up with that bi don't think. ( i hope)
Yeah, it'll be very interesting to see how Pence fares whenever this whole crazy administration finally ends. I do agree that I don't think he'll have the kind of pull or interest from the American public at large, though, thank goodness.
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Old 04-19-2019, 07:10 AM   #780
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https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/s...11951067910144

https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1118915224990441474
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