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Old 01-22-2019, 06:31 PM   #81
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Bernie is soft on the NRA.

We're eliminating him from consideration now, right?


He sure doesn’t like to sanction Russia, either.
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Old 01-22-2019, 06:57 PM   #82
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She was not a progressive prosecutor (I don’t know that such a thing exists to be honest). In terms of prosecutors she was about middle of the road. If that alone is disqualifying to some people, fine. But criminal justice is just one issue of many. If we’re disqualifying Dems on single issues then how many are out already? Biden and Bernie for sure.
I suppose it depends on the issue. Any Dem who won't run on Medicare for All is pretty much out in my book. "Affordability" and "access" are not things that drive people out to the polls, and they don't help nearly enough people. Similarly, any Dem who won't take climate change seriously is also out.

If Harris' only issue was that she was overbearing as a prosecutor, maybe I'd be alright with it. But there is plenty else to dislike about her platform. Regardless, I think her candidacy is a non-starter, so I'm not going to spend a tremendous amount of time fretting over it.

Biden is 100 percent out. He will get Me Too'd before he finishes a speech announcing his campaign.

Sanders has the most appealing platform of any Democratic candidate, in my view, and unfortunately there is a whole generation of Democrats that hate leftist policies. Consequently, there is no younger candidate more suited to run for president in his place with a similar platform. So while I don't think it's a generally good idea to run the elderly, the rest of the field is so bleak that I'm having a tough time imagining throwing support behind another candidate.
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Bernie is soft on the NRA.

We're eliminating him from consideration now, right?
The two biggest issues with Sanders in his record/platform are his shitty record on guns, and his lack of a really defined foreign policy viewpoint (though his stance on Palestine is encouraging). That said, I don't see Sanders nominating any Supreme Court justices that would further entrench the gun lobby's position, so it's not a dealbreaker for me. Still, his record is very cowardly and a definite negative that he should have to continue to answer for.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:02 PM   #83
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His record on guns IS a deal breaker for me, at least through the primaries.

If he wins, I'll vote for him.

I really do not want him to win. Nor do I want Biden, for that matter.

Fresh blood is needed.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:10 PM   #84
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Fresh blood is badly needed, but as I outlined, seemingly the whole of Generation X in Democratic politics abandoned the left. What they need is to start finding more Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's to start building a strong, left coalition of young, energetic Democrats who have an eye on the future. There is a major appetite for many of the policies she is championing. That's the sort of thing that can drive out young voters, instead of desperately vying for some mythical batch of independents.

I did see upthread someone say that independents decide every election. I very much disagree with that, or at the very least would argue that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:13 PM   #85
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So it turns out that if a video shows that you’re racist, and then additional video comes out that shows that other people acted like idiots, but still proves that you’re racist, you get invited to the White House! But that visit must wait until the racist President opens the government in which he’s holding hostage over his racist “wall”.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:34 PM   #86
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The Medicare for all would be great theme.

But what happens if a dem gets in and doesn’t get it passed? Much like Obamacare losing the public option

Will the left still support this candidate in the next cycle ? Will midterms swing to the gop again, or the MAGA party is what it should be called now

I’m fine with whatever (legal) it takes to get a dem back into the WH, but we have to still keep up the fight for congress and state races
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:11 PM   #87
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Oh good, this idiot is back.

https://twitter.com/JacobAWohl/statu...o-Runs-With-It
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:01 PM   #88
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US Politics XII: shutting down Interference until @U2 agrees to pay for a firewall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
Fresh blood is badly needed, but as I outlined, seemingly the whole of Generation X in Democratic politics abandoned the left. What they need is to start finding more Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's to start building a strong, left coalition of young, energetic Democrats who have an eye on the future. There is a major appetite for many of the policies she is championing. That's the sort of thing that can drive out young voters, instead of desperately vying for some mythical batch of independents.

I did see upthread someone say that independents decide every election. I very much disagree with that, or at the very least would argue that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.


The results of the 2018 election were due to the Democrats winning areas like Orange County, whichbis now almost entirely blue (if not totally). The base absolutely needs to turn out, but you win when you win the suburbs.

You will not move non-voters to vote by running a mythical candidate who will turn them out suddenly. That candidate has never materialized. The non-voters didn’t turn out for Bradley in 2000. They didn’t for Bernie. And they won’t suddenly awaken from their slumber in 2020.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:02 PM   #89
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This Dem primary isn't as big a clusterfuck as the GOP because almost all the candidates are sane, and not racist. So there's that. As much as I can't wait to vote for AOC as President, that will need to wait. Right now there are quite a few Dem candidates I would be excited to vote for, Kamala Harris is one. Is she my perfect candidate? No. I haven't yet decided who I will vote for in the primary, but important issues will be climate, healthcare, immigration and gun control.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:02 PM   #90
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The Medicare for all would be great


My hope is, as we saw in 2018, this is the issue that gets D’s to the polls. The right has abortion, and to a lesser extent guns. The left needs something, and access to health care may be it.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:18 PM   #91
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The results of the 2018 election were due to the Democrats winning areas like Orange County, whichbis now almost entirely blue (if not totally). The base absolutely needs to turn out, but you win when you win the suburbs.

You will not move non-voters to vote by running a mythical candidate who will turn them out suddenly. That candidate has never materialized. The non-voters didn’t turn out for Bradley in 2000. They didn’t for Bernie. And they won’t suddenly awaken from their slumber in 2020.
"we can never have an actual leftist president because we should always nominate someone that people who don't give a shit about politics might vote for but actually won't in reality because they never vote anyways."

this comment has been brought to you by /r/enlightenedcentrism.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:16 PM   #92
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Fresh blood is badly needed, but as I outlined, seemingly the whole of Generation X in Democratic politics abandoned the left. What they need is to start finding more Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's to start building a strong, left coalition of young, energetic Democrats who have an eye on the future. There is a major appetite for many of the policies she is championing. That's the sort of thing that can drive out young voters, instead of desperately vying for some mythical batch of independents.

I did see upthread someone say that independents decide every election. I very much disagree with that, or at the very least would argue that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.


Cortez has great energy, but she seriously lacks on her grasp of the facts, or at least communicating her understanding. The left will have to avoid buying into a leftist version of Trump. It will not work, it works with regression but not progression.

And Medicare for all will be a hard sell, no matter how you slice it. The only way it gets done is if someone has a clear cut plan that they can easily communicate to the masses. Sanders proves there is interest in the concepts, but he had no plan, he couldn’t speak to the math, he couldn’t speak to the how.

AND they’re going to have to back the f*ck away from diving head first into issues like the Catholic school event this past weekend. Trumpists were justified and emboldened over the fact that people couldn’t hold off to see the entire picture.

Currently, I’m not hopeful, I don’t see a candidate that excites the left, and a platform against Trump isn’t enough(though it should be). The way I see it, unless we have a surprising candidate that proves me wrong, we have to hope Trump destroys himself.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:35 PM   #93
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Cortez has great energy, but she seriously lacks on her grasp of the facts, or at least communicating her understanding. The left will have to avoid buying into a leftist version of Trump.
holy dear sweet shit

we have an early frontrunner for hottest take of the 2020 election right here folks. place your bets.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:55 PM   #94
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It’s not a hot take, it’s very much real.

When sanders releases his tax plan i had serious reservations. I make a good salary, have zero debt, and get id still have to severely downgrade my living standards to survive (i live in San Diego). I am not part of the 1%, instead I’m probably upper middle class and would have been affected negatively by his plan

So there was no way i was going to support him against Clinton.

Now put him against trump and id consider moving above screwing over minorities and wrecking our entire democracy

But there are plenty of people like me who see getting taxed more as a great reason to look the other way.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:03 PM   #95
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"that nonsense he said about AOC is very much real, as evidence here's my opinion of bernie sanders"
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:09 PM   #96
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US Politics XII: shutting down Interference until @U2 agrees to pay for a firewall

BVS called AOC a leftist version of Trump and Beal defended it by rambling about Bernie? Is that what I’m reading?
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:13 PM   #97
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either that's exactly what you're reading, or this is what the french call "la folie a deux".
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:25 PM   #98
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"we can never have an actual leftist president because we should always nominate someone that people who don't give a shit about politics might vote for but actually won't in reality because they never vote anyways."

this comment has been brought to you by /r/enlightenedcentrism.



I typed up several responses to this, but the more I read it the less sense it makes. So I’ll ask you to explain yourself.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:27 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Cortez has great energy, but she seriously lacks on her grasp of the facts, or at least communicating her understanding. The left will have to avoid buying into a leftist version of Trump. It will not work, it works with regression but not progression.

And Medicare for all will be a hard sell, no matter how you slice it. The only way it gets done is if someone has a clear cut plan that they can easily communicate to the masses. Sanders proves there is interest in the concepts, but he had no plan, he couldn’t speak to the math, he couldn’t speak to the how.

AND they’re going to have to back the f*ck away from diving head first into issues like the Catholic school event this past weekend. Trumpists were justified and emboldened over the fact that people couldn’t hold off to see the entire picture.

Currently, I’m not hopeful, I don’t see a candidate that excites the left, and a platform against Trump isn’t enough(though it should be). The way I see it, unless we have a surprising candidate that proves me wrong, we have to hope Trump destroys himself.


That is the worst take. AOC is a 28 year old congresswoman who gladly admits she doesn’t know everything. She will learn a ton and is the most exciting Dem since Obama. I love that more progressive ideas are starting to become more mainstream.

As for 2020, the Dems will be in a good position. This isn’t 2004.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:33 PM   #100
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The right is obsessed with AOC. Obsessed.

They fear her deadly political talents. And they should.

Let’s let her develop.
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