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Old 02-19-2019, 02:38 PM   #801
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Did anyone watch the town hall with Amy Klobuchar last night? I was impressed by her answers and demeanor. She was a natural in that format.
One thing I have to comment on is the clip they keep playing over and over again today. Her answer on free 4 year college.
She gives a flat no, and then a glib, "If I were the magic jeanie of the world, and we could afford it, sure I would love to do that"

Now, I don't necessarily believe in free 4 year college. But that answer was horrible. Horrible for progressives, horrible for moderates, horrible for most independents.
I do think there is definite need for AFFORDABLE 4 year college. I was definitely more in line with Clintons debt free college plan. This is a huge win in the progressive direction, while still mitigating cost and making the reality of passing it much higher.

She kinda lost me there. I was getting interested and that just shows me that she's just not my kind of candidate if she can't even give some alternative options to full free 4 year college.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:41 PM   #802
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We all know Bernie’s problems with minority voters, but what are Klobuchar’s?

(Honestly don’t know).
Oh god. I would say worse. But at least she would get a strong female turnout, which in turn may boost african american participation since female african americans are the highest percentage reliable voting block.

While Amy may have midwest appeal, and could maybe take back Iowa. If she can't get turnout in Philly and surrounding areas, or major OH cities, or Milwaukee, or Detroit. I think she will still struggle. Let alone writing off NC, SC, GA, FL and making VA a possible flip to red.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:43 PM   #803
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Oh god. I would say worse. But at least she would get a strong female turnout, which in turn may boost african american participation since female african americans are the highest percentage reliable voting block.

While Amy may have midwest appeal, and could maybe take back Iowa. If she can't get turnout in Philly and surrounding areas, or major OH cities, or Milwaukee, or Detroit. I think she will still struggle. Let alone writing off NC, SC, GA, FL and making VA a possible flip to red.



This doesn’t answer my question — other than being white and not southern, what are her potential electoral problems with minority voters?
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:03 PM   #804
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This doesn’t answer my question — other than being white and not southern, what are her potential electoral problems with minority voters?
For one i would just say name recognition and history.
This is the problem Bernie faces, but overcame the name recognition part.

She is from a nearly all white state and hasn't had much national recognition which would put it on the radar of people that aren't paying really close attention to all things political. Even then, she isn't a big name.

I don't see any specific bills she sponsored/cosponsored that have been focused on any minority specific issues. Nothing in her background as a youth or college student looks like she was an activist in any way for minority groups the way Hillary was. Even Bernie went to a march! yay Bernie. :/

When polled a couple weeks ago on who who African Americans would vote for today in a primary, Biden got 33%, Booker was around 6% forgot what Sanders was, and Klobuchar was nowhere to be found.

So while i can't site too much evidence, my gut is she sits extremely low on the radars of African American voters, and I would also guess most Latinos.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:21 PM   #805
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I missed the last 15 minutes of the town hall, I fell asleep. I was drawn in by her personal story of her alcoholic father. And how she relates that to treatment and the opioid crisis, and health care. He drove drunk when she was a child, with her in the car. For my own personal reasons I really like when politicians are honest about that stuff. Someone asked her a question about it, so she wasn't just throwing it out there for any sort of act.

My favorite thing about Bush Jr was his openness about his alcoholism.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:39 PM   #806
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For one i would just say name recognition and history.
This is the problem Bernie faces, but overcame the name recognition part.

She is from a nearly all white state and hasn't had much national recognition which would put it on the radar of people that aren't paying really close attention to all things political. Even then, she isn't a big name.

I don't see any specific bills she sponsored/cosponsored that have been focused on any minority specific issues. Nothing in her background as a youth or college student looks like she was an activist in any way for minority groups the way Hillary was. Even Bernie went to a march! yay Bernie. :/

When polled a couple weeks ago on who who African Americans would vote for today in a primary, Biden got 33%, Booker was around 6% forgot what Sanders was, and Klobuchar was nowhere to be found.

So while i can't site too much evidence, my gut is she sits extremely low on the radars of African American voters, and I would also guess most Latinos.
I have no skin in this game about who the Democrats nominate, but IMHO, this focus on identity politics is a big part of the problem.

"She's white, so no minorities will vote for her", "He's a white male, no women will vote for him."

The person that would win a general election has to galvanize people with ideas, not their identity.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 not based on who he was, but based on his ideas and quality as a candidate. Now whether I think he lived up to candidate Obama as President Obama is a different issue, but IMO, he was the best candidate based on his vision and ideas.

That's what the Dems need, not who check off what box as far as gender, race, etc.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:45 PM   #807
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Biden is a mystery to me. i don't know if he'd be a good candidate or not. it does feel like his time is over, and we need a candidate for the future.

however, the way back to the white house is still through PA, MI, and WI. TX and GA are just not there yet, and NC is still iffy. and who the fuck knows about OH and FL.

one thing i do know is that we need to cut Uncle Joe some slack when it comes to not being sufficiently "woke" back in 1991 or whatever. it was the most ludicrous thing, to me, to bash Hillary for the "super-predator" comments, when she said it, like, once in 1996, and was simply repeating what was absolutely a newsworthy concern at the time (i remember teen Irvine reading articles on it in Newsweek in the 90s). we completely have to give our older politicians the ability to "evolve" on issues that have absolutely evolved since the 1990s and earlier. obviously, its a case-by-case thing, but one of the reasons for the success of the same-sex marriage movement is that we were really fucking inclusive and forgiving and gave politicians (and the public) space to move incrementally and here we are now, where SSM is a consensus, settled position and, yes, you're a fucking bigot if you want to oppose two people of the same gender getting married.

long-winded way of saying that we must understand the progress we've made in the years between 1991 and 2019. i know in my own life that you have to let people learn, and to forgive them.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:48 PM   #808
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I have no skin in this game about who the Democrats nominate, but IMHO, this focus on identity politics is a big part of the problem.

"She's white, so no minorities will vote for her", "He's a white male, no women will vote for him."

The person that would win a general election has to galvanize people with ideas, not their identity.


even a nasty religious bigot like me kind of agrees with you here.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:02 PM   #809
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I have no skin in this game about who the Democrats nominate, but IMHO, this focus on identity politics is a big part of the problem.

"She's white, so no minorities will vote for her", "He's a white male, no women will vote for him."

The person that would win a general election has to galvanize people with ideas, not their identity.

I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 not based on who he was, but based on his ideas and quality as a candidate. Now whether I think he lived up to candidate Obama as President Obama is a different issue, but IMO, he was the best candidate based on his vision and ideas.

That's what the Dems need, not who check off what box as far as gender, race, etc.
That sounds very white male of you. Lets be honest, as a white guy, i have no REAL clue the every day trials and struggles and hurdles and bullshit that women and minorities face. I try my very best to be sympathetic, supporting, understanding and to help my children look at the world in a way to value everyone equally.
But the truth of the matter is that African American voters will have greater confidence that an African American candidate will understand them and stand up for their concerns, or a white candidate that has taken the time in the time in the minority community to build trust. Same for many Latino voters, women voters, and yes many progressive white males that want to see fairer treatment to all.

The truth is, if you have lived and worked in a 98% white state, have never passed laws specifically dealing with minority groups, have never given large chunks of your time and commitment to groups that support minority issues, then you can believe that you are not going to get much excitement from voters that want to see that history.

Bill Clinton had great crossover appeal, Obama had crossover appeal, Hillary had crossover appeal, Biden has crossover appeal, I think Harris could have crossover appeal. But I just don't see it in the cards for Amy, since it doesn't look like she's even trying at all to reach out to these constituence. I see her in large groups of white midwesterners and New Hampsherers.
It's not identity politics. It's just showing up for people for your career and building bridges and understanding.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:31 PM   #810
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That sounds very white male of you. Lets be honest, as a white guy, i have no REAL clue the every day trials and struggles and hurdles and bullshit that women and minorities face. I try my very best to be sympathetic, supporting, understanding and to help my children look at the world in a way to value everyone equally.
But the truth of the matter is that African American voters will have greater confidence that an African American candidate will understand them and stand up for their concerns, or a white candidate that has taken the time in the time in the minority community to build trust. Same for many Latino voters, women voters, and yes many progressive white males that want to see fairer treatment to all.

The truth is, if you have lived and worked in a 98% white state, have never passed laws specifically dealing with minority groups, have never given large chunks of your time and commitment to groups that support minority issues, then you can believe that you are not going to get much excitement from voters that want to see that history.


Bill Clinton had great crossover appeal, Obama had crossover appeal, Hillary had crossover appeal, Biden has crossover appeal, I think Harris could have crossover appeal. But I just don't see it in the cards for Amy, since it doesn't look like she's even trying at all to reach out to these constituence. I see her in large groups of white midwesterners and New Hampsherers.
It's not identity politics. It's just showing up for people for your career and building bridges and understanding.
Sigh, you've proved my point.

I am a white male, and an independent conservative. I am not a Republican, both parties completely suck for the most part as far as I'm concerned.

Conservatives, for the most part, are more interested in ideas, rather than identity.

I also am a recovered liberal, a former Democrat, so I am very familiar with all of these talking points, but that's all they are. They are not based in reality.

That's part of the reason why there are growing black and hispanic movements within conservatism because they have realized that they don't HAVE to be Democrats, even though that's what they've been told their whole lives.

Think what you want, but if you think identity politics is the future, and will give us healthy leadership, or that it will win the Democrats the Presidency, I have to disagree with you.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:33 PM   #811
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Bill and Barack had charisma for days, hearing them speak was magic. I'm not sure any candidates since have that kind of magic, it's rare.

As for "identity" politics, the GOP with their racist policies are doing a great job of driving the minority vote. In California, the Latinx vote was at presidential election levels during the mid-terms. That likely cost the GOP 7 seats in CA alone. As a Latina, I'll vote for any Dem candidate, but I have to say I will cry if a woman is finally elected. Representation matters. It really does.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:37 PM   #812
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I have no skin in this game about who the Democrats nominate, but IMHO, this focus on identity politics is a big part of the problem.



"She's white, so no minorities will vote for her", "He's a white male, no women will vote for him."



The person that would win a general election has to galvanize people with ideas, not their identity.



I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 not based on who he was, but based on his ideas and quality as a candidate. Now whether I think he lived up to candidate Obama as President Obama is a different issue, but IMO, he was the best candidate based on his vision and ideas.



That's what the Dems need, not who check off what box as far as gender, race, etc.


I am a fan of this post.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:37 PM   #813
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i love how mister "all taxes are socialist theft" is trying to gaslight us into believing that he used to be a democrat, and voted for obama.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:38 PM   #814
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i love how mister "all taxes are socialist theft" is trying to gaslight us into believing that he used to be a democrat, and voted for obama.


Take the point made for what it’s worth. It’s true.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:43 PM   #815
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Sigh, you've proved my point.

I am a white male, and an independent conservative. I am not a Republican, both parties completely suck for the most part as far as I'm concerned.

Conservatives, for the most part, are more interested in ideas, rather than identity.

I also am a recovered liberal, a former Democrat, so I am very familiar with all of these talking points, but that's all they are. They are not based in reality.

That's part of the reason why there are growing black and hispanic movements within conservatism because they have realized that they don't HAVE to be Democrats, even though that's what they've been told their whole lives.

Think what you want, but if you think identity politics is the future, and will give us healthy leadership, or that it will win the Democrats the Presidency, I have to disagree with you.
I've proved YOUR point?? LMAO!!! That's rich. You sound like Schultz. "I don't see color"! Yeah, that's not something to brag about. That's what white, privileged people say when they don't want to spend one moment trying to understand the history and point of view of minorities.

A recovered liberal? what a joke. It's just being too lazy to actually care about trying to think that there are millions of people that have not had the same white male upbringing that you have. But you have fun with that. Your choice will be between some version of a liberal and worst human being to grace this earth. So there's that.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:48 PM   #816
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Take the point made for what it’s worth. It’s true.
sure it's true, in fantasyland.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:52 PM   #817
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I've proved YOUR point?? LMAO!!! That's rich. You sound like Schultz. "I don't see color"! Yeah, that's not something to brag about. That's what white, privileged people say when they don't want to spend one moment trying to understand the history and point of view of minorities.

A recovered liberal? what a joke. It's just being too lazy to actually care about trying to think that there are millions of people that have not had the same white male upbringing that you have. But you have fun with that. Your choice will be between some version of a liberal and worst human being to grace this earth. So there's that.
I don't care enough about what you guys think to lie, just stating an opinion, but the responses speak volumes
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:02 PM   #818
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"i don't care enough about what you guys think", says guy who constantly whines about what we think.
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Old 02-19-2019, 05:15 PM   #819
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Bill and Barack had charisma for days, hearing them speak was magic. I'm not sure any candidates since have that kind of magic, it's rare.

As for "identity" politics, the GOP with their racist policies are doing a great job of driving the minority vote. In California, the Latinx vote was at presidential election levels during the mid-terms. That likely cost the GOP 7 seats in CA alone. As a Latina, I'll vote for any Dem candidate, but I have to say I will cry if a woman is finally elected. Representation matters. It really does.
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Old 02-19-2019, 06:45 PM   #820
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Bill and Barack had charisma for days, hearing them speak was magic. I'm not sure any candidates since have that kind of magic, it's rare.

As for "identity" politics, the GOP with their racist policies are doing a great job of driving the minority vote. In California, the Latinx vote was at presidential election levels during the mid-terms. That likely cost the GOP 7 seats in CA alone. As a Latina, I'll vote for any Dem candidate, but I have to say I will cry if a woman is finally elected. Representation matters. It really does.
This. I too will be beyond happy if a woman finally becomes president at long last (and it'd be especially appropriate if we get a female president next year, given 2020 will mark 100 years that women have had the right to vote). I'm glad we've got so many women in the running as it is.

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Did anyone watch the town hall with Amy Klobuchar last night? I was impressed by her answers and demeanor. She was a natural in that format.
She was actually downtown at my mall this past weekend. I was working at the time, so I didn't get a chance to go see her, but I did hear some of her speech here and there because it was happening just outside my workplace. There was a nice little crowd of people there to see her . I definitely agree she'll appeal to people in the Midwest, but I can see where she might need to get her name out there a little more beyond this area of the country.
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