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Old 02-18-2019, 10:51 AM   #761
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I say he is fascinating in the fact that he took on the entire establishment and threaded the needle to win. He’s fascinating because he pisses off the gop establishment too, as well as putting speed bumps in front of certain global trends. Time made him person of the year.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:34 AM   #762
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US Politics XII: shutting down Interference until @U2 agrees to pay for a firewall

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I say he is fascinating in the fact that he took on the entire establishment and threaded the needle to win. He’s fascinating because he pisses off the gop establishment too, as well as putting speed bumps in front of certain global trends. Time made him person of the year.



The phenomenon may be fascinating, the man is not.

The Russians threaded that needle for him, and I suppose there’s something fascinating about using naked racism (rather than the traditional dog whistle) to overthrow the GOP establishment. Never underestimate the depths to which the right wing base can sink, I suppose that’s one thing he’s taught us.
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:33 PM   #763
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I say he is fascinating in the fact that he took on the entire establishment and threaded the needle to win. He’s fascinating because he pisses off the gop establishment too, as well as putting speed bumps in front of certain global trends. Time made him person of the year.
He only pissed off the establishment because of how obviously offensive he is. They do not like having to take a side on some of his statements. But they largely look at him as a net positive, because of several things:

1. While the "saying the quiet part loud" thing has had its drawbacks, they've also seen that the appetite for what the GOP has to offer in terms of hate and vitriol is barely deterred at all by outright offensiveness. They have way more wiggle room than they used to. Brett Kavanaugh's nomination is a direct result. He would not have gotten past Congress had Bush put him out there (though Biden would have tried his hardest).

2. His rhetoric has served as a welcome distraction at times. While it is undeniable the impact that Comey and Russia had on the election, Clinton pivoting her focus to Trump's rudeness is probably the most directly responsible thing for Trump winning than anything else. That would not have happened with another Republican candidate. Trump speaking in that way was so nuts to the establishment that they thought pointing to that would win out over everything else, totally misreading a major aspect of his appeal.

3. His actual policies are by and large by the book GOP standards, since Trump has very little in the way of actual political beliefs. The tax cuts he has gotten through, the ability to aid them in voter repression throughout the country, packing the federal courts and the Supreme Court with absolute scum ... he's been highly effective. McConnell himself said Trump's first two years were the peak of his time as senator.

The "Never Trump" Republican is mostly a myth. That constituency barely exists in any real number. The majority of the people that applies to are media class types uncomfortable with a job where optics on social issues matters. The average Trump voter is a suburban small business tyrant who "may disagree with him on some things, but he gets the job done."
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:13 PM   #764
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He is who he is. Many people hate him, but he is truly one of the most fascinating public figures of the last century. It’s a shame that most journalists spend their time parroting borderline stealing headlines from each other. Probably of no fault of their own. Just feeding the media machine. I’m not saying Trump has done anything good but the media’s inability to find new angles to cover him only estranges them further from the Trumpkins. Then it’s one big echo chamber with no influence on a movable voter
He's not fascinating. He's as far from fascinating as you can possibly get. His entire being is a con, and has been since long before he ever ran for office.

He's a steaming pile of horse shit and should be covered as such.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:16 PM   #765
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It’s fascinating that people, even those smart enough to identify his con, still defend him.

Sort of makes them, yknow stupid as fuck.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:27 PM   #766
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I’m not saying Trump has done anything good but the media’s inability to find new angles to cover him only estranges them further from the Trumpkins.
Here we go again with this tired line of thinking - that we should all bend over backwards and abandon our values, common sense and basic humanity in order to not be "estranged" from Trumpkins or in order not to alienate them further. It's just revolting, to be honest. The die hard Trump fans who are totally divorced from reality, and who are as angry, racist and vile as he is will NEVER be brought into the fold and it's really tiresome to hear that it is incumbent upon decent people to somehow cater to them. They can GTFO.
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Old 02-18-2019, 02:53 PM   #767
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I guess he's "fascinating" like a cult leader who gets his followers to drink poison Kool Aid. He is leading a cult too, it has all the characteristics. I would go with depressing and frightening rather than fascinating. And steaming pile of crap too.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:14 PM   #768
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CNN is reporting that some anonymous friend of Trump says Trump is confident that the national emergency is a winning issue in 2020. That's what it is all about and what it's always been about.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:25 PM   #769
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He’s not fascinating; he’s an objectively awful person who sees nothing beyond the potential for financial gain. The whole reason for his candidacy was money, and he views the presidency as a way to make money. That’s it. He doesn’t actually believe in much of anything, aside from his misogynist, racist, and authoritarian impulses. He has no capacity for joy. He’s not just a narcissist, he’s a nihilist.

The “same headlines” you see are from the media reporting on his nearly incessant lies. Constant lies. About everything, even things that don’t need to be lied about (crowd size, hand size, plot points from “Sicario 2”). Objective reporting on Trump only looks like bias (to you) because it has no choice to be anything other than critical — all he does is lie, and it is the media’s job (actual journalists, not right wing media) to report when people in positions of power tell lies and cheat and steal.

I agree with everything you say except the reason he ran for president. I don't think it was for making money. I think he knew there was a posibility that his finances would take a hit from it.
It's all in that piece posted above by David Roth. He craves attention, he lives to be followed and interviewed and written about. His idea of the presidency truly was being a dictator. He wants what N.Korea and China and Russia have. Pure control over the media and how it covers him. LIke has been said before. He has no beliefs. He has no values. It doesn't matter if he passed a tax cut or tax hike. He doesn't give one shit about a wall other than it gets people chanting at him. He likes NOT having the wall so he can spout racist things about brown people invading and have his 34% mouth breathing base go psycho at his rallies. It was and always will be about attention.

Remember the 20 attributes of a psychopath. He checks them all, but the top 11 are just remarkable in how spot on they are.

pathological lying
glib and superficial charm
grandiose sense of self
need for stimulation
cunning and manipulative
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow emotional response
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity

I agree slightly that he is fascinating, but so were Manson and Jim Jones. What is far more fascinating to me are the 34% base. I knew racism still existed, i knew misogyny still existed, xenophobia, white nationalism. I knew it was out there in varying degrees. But I truly had no idea how rampant it still is in our society. How deep the distrust of the "other" is from the deep south showboat racist, to the midwestern polite racist. Trump has paraded them out and basks in their chants and applause.

He is sick, perverse and empty shell of humanity. And 32 to 38 percent of your neighbors love him and everything he is. Just so very sad and terrifying
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:32 PM   #770
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CNN is reporting that some anonymous friend of Trump says Trump is confident that the national emergency is a winning issue in 2020. That's what it is all about and what it's always been about.
I believe 5 polls came out and all of them had approve of National Emergency around 32 to 36% and Dissaprove in the 60's. Absolutely this is a winning issue for his 34% base. But those consistent polls show its a loser for moderates and independents that he desparately needs
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:42 PM   #771
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Trump Tower Moscow — that’s the money he wanted.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:53 PM   #772
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Trump Tower Moscow — that’s the money he wanted.
But wouldn't he have been able to open that easier without becoming president?
It only got mucked up when people started calling it a conflict of interest.

Now maybe this was how everything got started. Putin knew that he had considered running in the past. Saw Lil Donny wanted a big boy tower in his country, and told him he would get the tower, AND become president with his help, but Trump was going to need to follow Putin's rules once he was in office.

Not really sure. But either way the project got dropped and it may not have if he just not been president.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:26 PM   #773
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The irony of the claims of "bias" against Trump is that the media are far too forgiving of him. They debate the undebatable, credit him for being an expert of media manipulation, prop up basically every bad-faith GOP argument and stance, and wonder aloud if he's turning a corner every time he manages to get through a pre-written speech without rambling too much off script. Any truly objective media outlet would never have a single positive thing to say about him, because there is nothing. His worldview, his actions, his speech, his policies, his voters, his fellow Republicans ... there is nothing redeeming there, whatsoever.

The only thing Trump ever successfully did was recognize something that Clinton could not, which is that shit was not good in 2016 for many, many people. Trump did not realize this because he is smart or surrounded by good people; he realized this because when he said it aloud at a rally, he received applause. Trump did not mean it in the way it actually exists: economic inequality is the cause, while he ascribed it to Democrats, immigrants, and taxes on rich people. But "Make America Great Again" rings way truer for people than "America Is Already Great."
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:29 PM   #774
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Trump Org had two national hotel brands aimed at low rollers with heavy Americana themes. The way it used to be, ya know? Before all these brown and gay people were everywhere.

The only reason why they don't exist is because the pressure from the investigation caused the only banks who would actually lend to him... foreign banks with Russian ties (this is indisputable fact)... to back off. Trump Org is only struggling because of the investigation. Without it they'd be killing it. Trump International in DC is making money hand over foot. So are Mar A Lago and Bedminster. End of the day he only actually owns a handful of properties. The overwhelming majority or "Trump" properties are branding deals.

The red line was not investigation into election meddling... it was investigation into his business deals.

Make no doubt. This entire thing was about cash.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:35 PM   #775
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The God's honest truth is the Russians did not need to do much to meddle in the election. We were always trending in that direction. Facebook and Google/YouTube built business models around keeping people on their sites longer to generate more ad revenue, a recipe for the building of echo chambers that probably had more to do with the development of the alt-right than anything else. The economy never really recovered after 2008; stock prices did, and unemployment dropped, but underemployment skyrocketed, health care costs went through the roof, and wages have remained stagnant. The latter had people disillusioned; the former created an easy path for anyone who wanted to weaponize social media. The Russians got in on the action, but so did plenty of entities hell bent on seeing through more corporate tax cuts.

Most people's lives in America are much harder than they need to be. How you fix that is a matter of who you blame for what caused us to get here. But only one party is interested in naming an enemy.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:21 PM   #776
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There have been numerous stories about how Trump ran for President as a joke ago trip and never thought he would win. In Fahrenheit 11/9 Michael Moore says Trump did it because he found out NBC was paying Gwen Stefani more than they were paying him. Apparently he thought they'd back up the Brinks truck to keep him rather than lose him to a campaign. Then it backfired when they dumped him for calling Mexicans rapists and murderers.

I don't know what Moore's source is for that but I think it's completely believable.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:50 PM   #777
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There have been numerous stories about how Trump ran for President as a joke ago trip and never thought he would win. In Fahrenheit 11/9 Michael Moore says Trump did it because he found out NBC was paying Gwen Stefani more than they were paying him. Apparently he thought they'd back up the Brinks truck to keep him rather than lose him to a campaign. Then it backfired when they dumped him for calling Mexicans rapists and murderers.

I don't know what Moore's source is for that but I think it's completely believable.
I don't doubt this for a second. The two triggers i believe were this and when Obama roasted him mercilessly at the correspondents dinner. That is what set him off. I think he thought he would run, get his name out there more, boost his business at his properties and then lose and go back business.

When he WON, is when that changed. Cash may be the reason he started to run, but AFTER he won, popularity, praise, attention and power were what excited him about the job and guide him in every rash decision (not serving the country. LOL)
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:39 PM   #778
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i feel like we used to have a member here who, during the last election campaign, also thought trump was fascinating while claiming not to be a supporter
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:48 PM   #779
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Who has a history of returning with alter egos in an attempt to troll us as though he is clever?

You don’t say
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:57 PM   #780
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must just be a coincidence, that guy got banned ya know.
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