Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Was this the one who described the sexual fantasies about his underage cousin on another board?
US Politics XII: shutting down Interference until @U2 agrees to pay for a firewall
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Could somebody remind me of which former member we're talking about, perhaps by using a scale of racists?
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Bernie is running again
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Bernie just ripped into Howard Schultz in the CBS morning show interview.
Zephyrpilot
The Fly
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But the point is. Do you want to find a way to win in 2020 or be stuck with the jerk till 2025?
Yes because those people will suddenly vote for Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris. Please. We don’t need them, but thanks for your concern trolling.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Interesting that when Pence continues to speak, he is silent as well. Just moving his lips with no sound coming out.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Come on now, he probably has to give Donnie a spray tan. Would you want to do that?
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Oy. The Ego has landed
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
May the candidate with the dankest memes win.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
And Donnie probably wants the all over tan...
EW
Unfortunately this is fake. Or fortunately.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Did anyone watch the town hall with Amy Klobuchar last night? I was impressed by her answers and demeanor. She was a natural in that format.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
How depressing this is. I miss dignity in the WH.
She's very smart and put together in this format, I agree.
A lot of her potential success will depend on whether Biden runs. Right now everyone else is to the left of her with the possible exception of Tulsi Gabbard whose campaign is DOA anyway.
The Donald is referring to himself as "your all time favorite President" on Twitter again. Medicate him, please.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
She's much better on the stump than I would have guessed. But i still think she is not going to make it at the top of ticket. The minority vote would be ABYSMAL! Possibly a Klobuchar/Harris ticket or vice versa may be a good pairing. Double woman ticket would be awesome, but would HAVE to include a minority in the mix. Just like Bernie. He is dead in the water with minority voters.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
We all know Bernie’s problems with minority voters, but what are Klobuchar’s?
(Honestly don’t know).
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
One thing I have to comment on is the clip they keep playing over and over again today. Her answer on free 4 year college.
She gives a flat no, and then a glib, "If I were the magic jeanie of the world, and we could afford it, sure I would love to do that"
Now, I don't necessarily believe in free 4 year college. But that answer was horrible. Horrible for progressives, horrible for moderates, horrible for most independents.
I do think there is definite need for AFFORDABLE 4 year college. I was definitely more in line with Clintons debt free college plan. This is a huge win in the progressive direction, while still mitigating cost and making the reality of passing it much higher.
She kinda lost me there. I was getting interested and that just shows me that she's just not my kind of candidate if she can't even give some alternative options to full free 4 year college.
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Oh god. I would say worse. But at least she would get a strong female turnout, which in turn may boost african american participation since female african americans are the highest percentage reliable voting block.
While Amy may have midwest appeal, and could maybe take back Iowa. If she can't get turnout in Philly and surrounding areas, or major OH cities, or Milwaukee, or Detroit. I think she will still struggle. Let alone writing off NC, SC, GA, FL and making VA a possible flip to red.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
This doesn’t answer my question — other than being white and not southern, what are her potential electoral problems with minority voters?
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
For one i would just say name recognition and history.
This is the problem Bernie faces, but overcame the name recognition part.
She is from a nearly all white state and hasn't had much national recognition which would put it on the radar of people that aren't paying really close attention to all things political. Even then, she isn't a big name.
I don't see any specific bills she sponsored/cosponsored that have been focused on any minority specific issues. Nothing in her background as a youth or college student looks like she was an activist in any way for minority groups the way Hillary was. Even Bernie went to a march! yay Bernie. :/
When polled a couple weeks ago on who who African Americans would vote for today in a primary, Biden got 33%, Booker was around 6% forgot what Sanders was, and Klobuchar was nowhere to be found.
So while i can't site too much evidence, my gut is she sits extremely low on the radars of African American voters, and I would also guess most Latinos.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I missed the last 15 minutes of the town hall, I fell asleep. I was drawn in by her personal story of her alcoholic father. And how she relates that to treatment and the opioid crisis, and health care. He drove drunk when she was a child, with her in the car. For my own personal reasons I really like when politicians are honest about that stuff. Someone asked her a question about it, so she wasn't just throwing it out there for any sort of act.
My favorite thing about Bush Jr was his openness about his alcoholism.
My favorite thing about Bush Jr was his openness about his alcoholism.
I have no skin in this game about who the Democrats nominate, but IMHO, this focus on identity politics is a big part of the problem.
"She's white, so no minorities will vote for her", "He's a white male, no women will vote for him."
The person that would win a general election has to galvanize people with ideas, not their identity.
I voted for Barack Obama in 2008 not based on who he was, but based on his ideas and quality as a candidate. Now whether I think he lived up to candidate Obama as President Obama is a different issue, but IMO, he was the best candidate based on his vision and ideas.
That's what the Dems need, not who check off what box as far as gender, race, etc.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Biden is a mystery to me. i don't know if he'd be a good candidate or not. it does feel like his time is over, and we need a candidate for the future.
however, the way back to the white house is still through PA, MI, and WI. TX and GA are just not there yet, and NC is still iffy. and who the fuck knows about OH and FL.
one thing i do know is that we need to cut Uncle Joe some slack when it comes to not being sufficiently "woke" back in 1991 or whatever. it was the most ludicrous thing, to me, to bash Hillary for the "super-predator" comments, when she said it, like, once in 1996, and was simply repeating what was absolutely a newsworthy concern at the time (i remember teen Irvine reading articles on it in Newsweek in the 90s). we completely have to give our older politicians the ability to "evolve" on issues that have absolutely evolved since the 1990s and earlier. obviously, its a case-by-case thing, but one of the reasons for the success of the same-sex marriage movement is that we were really fucking inclusive and forgiving and gave politicians (and the public) space to move incrementally and here we are now, where SSM is a consensus, settled position and, yes, you're a fucking bigot if you want to oppose two people of the same gender getting married.
long-winded way of saying that we must understand the progress we've made in the years between 1991 and 2019. i know in my own life that you have to let people learn, and to forgive them.
however, the way back to the white house is still through PA, MI, and WI. TX and GA are just not there yet, and NC is still iffy. and who the fuck knows about OH and FL.
one thing i do know is that we need to cut Uncle Joe some slack when it comes to not being sufficiently "woke" back in 1991 or whatever. it was the most ludicrous thing, to me, to bash Hillary for the "super-predator" comments, when she said it, like, once in 1996, and was simply repeating what was absolutely a newsworthy concern at the time (i remember teen Irvine reading articles on it in Newsweek in the 90s). we completely have to give our older politicians the ability to "evolve" on issues that have absolutely evolved since the 1990s and earlier. obviously, its a case-by-case thing, but one of the reasons for the success of the same-sex marriage movement is that we were really fucking inclusive and forgiving and gave politicians (and the public) space to move incrementally and here we are now, where SSM is a consensus, settled position and, yes, you're a fucking bigot if you want to oppose two people of the same gender getting married.
long-winded way of saying that we must understand the progress we've made in the years between 1991 and 2019. i know in my own life that you have to let people learn, and to forgive them.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
That sounds very white male of you. Lets be honest, as a white guy, i have no REAL clue the every day trials and struggles and hurdles and bullshit that women and minorities face. I try my very best to be sympathetic, supporting, understanding and to help my children look at the world in a way to value everyone equally.
But the truth of the matter is that African American voters will have greater confidence that an African American candidate will understand them and stand up for their concerns, or a white candidate that has taken the time in the time in the minority community to build trust. Same for many Latino voters, women voters, and yes many progressive white males that want to see fairer treatment to all.
The truth is, if you have lived and worked in a 98% white state, have never passed laws specifically dealing with minority groups, have never given large chunks of your time and commitment to groups that support minority issues, then you can believe that you are not going to get much excitement from voters that want to see that history.
Bill Clinton had great crossover appeal, Obama had crossover appeal, Hillary had crossover appeal, Biden has crossover appeal, I think Harris could have crossover appeal. But I just don't see it in the cards for Amy, since it doesn't look like she's even trying at all to reach out to these constituence. I see her in large groups of white midwesterners and New Hampsherers.
It's not identity politics. It's just showing up for people for your career and building bridges and understanding.
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Sigh, you've proved my point.
I am a white male, and an independent conservative. I am not a Republican, both parties completely suck for the most part as far as I'm concerned.
Conservatives, for the most part, are more interested in ideas, rather than identity.
I also am a recovered liberal, a former Democrat, so I am very familiar with all of these talking points, but that's all they are. They are not based in reality.
That's part of the reason why there are growing black and hispanic movements within conservatism because they have realized that they don't HAVE to be Democrats, even though that's what they've been told their whole lives.
Think what you want, but if you think identity politics is the future, and will give us healthy leadership, or that it will win the Democrats the Presidency, I have to disagree with you.
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