US Politics XII: shutting down Interference until @U2 agrees to pay for a firewall

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Is it too much to ask a politician to both sponsor this project bringing jobs and revenue to the area

AND

Work on changing the laws that allow these companies to cheat on their taxes ?

In an ideal world we could do both, but since it’s not and the latter isn’t going to change anytime soon

I would have been good with giving the jobs and boost to that economy
 
doing anything remotely anti-capitalist = selfish spotlight chasing. got it.

also, thank you for making it abundantly clear that you know what her constituents want more than she does.
 
doing anything remotely anti-capitalist = selfish spotlight chasing. got it.

also, thank you for making it abundantly clear that you know what her constituents want more than she does.

Straight out of the Bernie-bot playbook. Speaking in absolute terms at all times.
No, you truly can introduce bills at the right time, and work hard to gather enough votes to make meaningful changes that could actually make corporations pay federal taxes. Or you could make rash decisions at inopportune times just to make noise and get lots of attention and nothing done.

And in case you or AOC were wondering how people in the area felt about it.
Headache already posted this:
new york state - 56% approval, 36% disapproval
new york city - 58% approval, 35 % disapproval
nyc white voters - 51% approval, 40% disapproval
nyc african american voters - 70% approval, 25% disapproval
nyc hispanic voters - 81% approval, 17% disapproval
nyc union households - 53% approval, 40% disapproval
 
Trump wants this wall fight to drag out as long as possible, he wants to get two years worth of mileage out of it. That's why it's suddenly an emergency now, he knows that won't work. But there won't be a shutdown.

Only a fool like him will run over that wall vs the economy. Maybe he figures the economy will falter, but there's no way he can figure that out. I don't think he understands basic economics, plus he doesn't read the briefing materials.

Isn't anyone excited about Bill Weld running for President?
 
Trump wants this wall fight to drag out as long as possible, he wants to get two years worth of mileage out of it. That's why it's suddenly an emergency now, he knows that won't work. But there won't be a shutdown.

Only a fool like him will run over that wall vs the economy. Maybe he figures the economy will falter, but there's no way he can figure that out. I don't think he understands basic economics, plus he doesn't read the briefing materials.

Isn't anyone excited about Bill Weld running for President?

I had to google him.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...ax-bill-2018-no-taxes-despite-billions-profit

amazon made a profit of $11.3 billion last year and paid precisely zero dollars in taxes (and in fact they got a $130 million *rebate*), but when AOC says "hey maybe in that case we shouldn't be using billions in taxpayer money to fund this new campus" she personally has somehow cost NYC a billion dollars in tax revenues every year (because, ya know, amazon clearly pays so much in taxes) and she needs to immediately shut up and stop being so self-centered, selfish, arrogant, and short-sighted, and get in line behind nancy pelosi and never speak up again about any of her principles, policies, or ideas until the democrats control every single branch of government.

did i get that right?

25,000 jobs at $150k+. All of those 25k employees would pay city and state tax

Having Amazon there would also bring in other businesses. It would also have been a boom for the restaurants in the neighborhood. Hotels would have seen a huge boost from this - and there are a ton of hotels going up in the Court square section of LIC. That's a shit ton of tax revenue.

The promised 25k were also just tech jobs. That doesn't include the truck drivers, maintenance, clerical, etc. That's tax revenue.

There are the construction companies, the union workers, who now won't be building this massive complex. That's tax revenue.

New high rise residential buildings were being planned. That's now on hold. That's tax revenue.

There was also an intermediate School that Amazon was going to fund... That was my neighborhood. There's a major lack or schools there. It's one of the main reasons why we moved. This deal was going to help that. Now it's gone.

It's also coming at a time where NYC is seeing some companies begin to look elsewhere. But sure, let's turn companies away. Things have always gone well in NYC when the companies look to move. Actually wait, the opposite has happened.

The deal also had high approval marks across every demographic you could think of. You almost never see the city and state agree on anything. They agreed on this.

The biggest argument against it that was used locally - transportation and the bad shape of the subway sysyem - is a bullshit argument. The MTA is in the shit not because of a lack of tax money coming from NYC, but because it's run by the state and not the city - and upstate politicians steal money from the city's giant tax base to fund pet projects upstate. Amazon wasn't changing this one way or another. The only thing that can fix this is for the state to hand over control to the city.

But even with that said - Amazon agreed to help fund infrastructure improvements in the neighborhood. That's gone now.

This 3 billion wasn't some lump sum that was being taken away from something else. It was a discount on money that didn't exist yet. Nobody is getting the 3 billion dollars back now to spend on schools and housing. This is what is being sold, and it's a pile of crap. The 3 billion over 25 years was decreasing new tax payments. Those tax payments now will never happen. Zero dollars will come in now.


And AOC? This isn't her district. It's Carolyn Maloney's district, and she was in favor of the deal. So she came in to help torpedo a deal that wasn't even in her district.
 
doing anything remotely anti-capitalist = selfish spotlight chasing. got it.

also, thank you for making it abundantly clear that you know what her constituents want more than she does.
Big problem here... HQ2 was not being built in her district.

The people who will feel the biggest impacts are not her constituents.
 
and now i'm a "bernie bot" even though i've literally never once said one good thing about bernie sanders here. :lmao:

Never called you a berniebot. You just use the same tactics of arguing. Illustrating that the voices of no compromise and fake progressive purity got us Trump and corps paying 14% less in taxes. Seems you will focus on anything other than the main message i'm trying to convey. I guess we just disagree on this. I await the next shot in the foot from AOC and other freshman wanting to have their voice heard rather than craft a sensible path forward for real change.
 
I would also like to point out that I’m not just a cat with sunglasses and headphones. I’m bono as a cat in an iPod commercial.

Let meow in the sound.
 
NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — Most realtors and businesses owner in Long Island City are in a state of shock over the end of the Amazon deal.

The Queens Chamber of Commerce told CBS2’s Lisa Rozner the 25,000 jobs that were expected to be created by the Amazon venture really would have had a domino effect of creating another 50,000 to 75,000 jobs in the area. Home prices and sales were soaring, with one realtor estimating up to 30 percent. Now, who knows what will happen?

Gianna Cerbone served a mostly empty lunch crowd at Manducati Rustica on Vernon Boulevard. The restaurant has been there for 11 years and was optimistic to fill the seats while awaiting Amazon’s arrival.

“Shocked. Like most people we were shocked and upset,” Cerbone said of the collapse of the deal with the internet giant. “If you go down Vernon Boulevard right now, you will notice that there are four spaces for rent that have been for rent for over six months or so.”

Cerbone’s eatery and thousands of other businesses in the Queens Chamber of Commerce were already making plans. Thomas Grech is the chamber’s president and CEO.

“As late as this morning we had a community advisory meeting in Long Island City, doing educational programs for folks in Queensbridge Houses,” Grech said. “People were preparing to choose contractors for construction and so on, so we were pretty far along.”

The organization actually proposed Amazon move to the area in 2017. On Thursday, the internet giant called Grech to apologize.

When asked if he has any plans to try to make Amazon reconsider, Grech said, “I don’t think so. I think, um, they had enough.”

Again... these are not AOC's constituents. These are Carolyn Maloney's constituents.

AOC's district begins in Woodside. That's like 8 subway stops away. That might as well be a new state in NYC terms.

AOC should worry about what to do in Willets Point and leave Hunters Point alone.
 
well yes, in that case i agree that she shouldn't be mucking around in other representatives' constituencies like that. everything i'd read about this up to now gave me the impression that this was planned for her district.

i admit then that she was wrong to do that and it was a mistake. i agree 100% with the principle behind her actions but she shouldn't be causing that kind of effect on other reps' districts without their agreement. that's not right.

so, she fucked up. show me one person who makes zero mistakes in their first six months in a completely new career.

none of this changes the fact that calling her names and saying she needs to shut up is still a load of horseshit.
 
the stupid idiot instantly fucked himself legally during the press conference when he said "i didn't need to do this".

congratulations-you-played-yourself-gif-1.gif
 
well yes, in that case i agree that she shouldn't be mucking around in other representatives' constituencies like that. everything i'd read about this up to now gave me the impression that this was planned for her district.

i admit then that she was wrong to do that and it was a mistake. i agree 100% with the principle behind her actions but she shouldn't be causing that kind of effect on other reps' districts without their agreement. that's not right.

so, she fucked up. show me one person who makes zero mistakes in their first six months in a completely new career.

none of this changes the fact that calling her names and saying she needs to shut up is still a load of horseshit.

I'm not the one who called her names or told her to shut up.

I do think there's a little spotlight grab going on with her. I don't necessarily blame her not fault her for that. She does, however, need to be careful. A bright star can flame out pretty quickly. She's captured people's imaginations. Don't abuse it.
 
wasn't suggesting that you were saying that stuff.

even if she is going after the spotlight, how is that such a bad thing that she needs to shut up? she's already energized and engaged so many young people who otherwise likely wouldn't care about politics, just from being relatable on social media. they're more likely to vote next year and they're all going to vote for progressives. i would have thought that would be welcomed here far more than it seems to be.
 
That’s cute. In the meantime Democrats better get their shit together and pick a winning candidate. Trump’s SOTU speech had an 83% approval among Independents (CBS). Economy keeps humming he’s going to be tough to beat.

Listening to public radio earlier this afternoon (program was called A1) they had polls showing Trump in trouble in WI, MI, and the other one Hillary was expected to win ( not Fla, or Ohio). I believe it included independents.
Yes, i am worried about voter suppression, the extreme gerrymandering, and furthet Russian meddling. I think all is not lost.

I would hope that most people would feel that what is of utmost importance is getting that abomination out of the WH as soon as possible/practicable. But I'm not this confident in Biden necessarily pulling it off. My concern is mostly around whether he mobilizes people to the polls. Once you give up on the 30% of the electorate that's basically deplorable, it comes down to driving massive turnout. When turnout is high, Democrats win. People like Joe Biden on an "aw shucks" way but is he really going to electrify crowds and get people to stand for hours and canvass like they did for Obama? I have my doubts.

As much as we talk about getting Trump out, if there is any chance at taking back the Senate, it would be a dream come true. It's actually more important in the grand scheme of things.
Wait, to have Trump still in office while Dems keep the House, and get the Senate back?!!
:uhoh: i dunno about that...

unless u r thinking if trump is still office then the House can impeach, and the Senate convict? He's such a loose cannon i sure hope he's gone (along e pence) befote then. Tho, i'm not holding my breath! :sigh:

There may be no better example of how inept the Democrats are at playing politics than the collective handling of this Ilhan Omar "controversy."

1. Omar correctly points out that Israel's absurd "untouchable" status in modern American politics is in no small part due to heavy influence from lobbyists.
2. Republicans flip out and make bad faith arguments that her points included "anti-Semetic rhetoric," which is not the case. They also frame the issue as requiring the Democrats to respond.
3. Democrats oblige, and unify to label Omar's comments anti-Semetic to placate the right.
4. Omar is forced to apologize despite having done nothing wrong.
5. Instead of being satisfied with the placation, as the Democrats seemed to think they would be, the Republicans take advantage of all this to demand her removal from her committees, and now the president calls for her resignation.
6. The Democrats now stumble around saying "Hey, wait a second..." once again.

You couldn't draw up a better summary of how bad the Democrats are at this. The Democrats are once again Charlie Brown, and once again the Republicans have pulled the football away. Even Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders have fallen for the nonsense, which has been incredibly disappointing.
I haven't heard all the fallout yet so i can 't day going sure.

And Democrats need to make certain all their voices are heard, and not just one congressperson from Queens. If it becomes a choice between Trump and AOC, guess who’s going to win?

His approval ratings have ticked up. Some of it is from the SOTU, and some of it has been the clarifying of the two things he’s going to run against: “socialism” and “infanticide.”
I could see these two issues being major in his campaign.

I can think of two things that are much more of a national emergency than this dipshit racist “wall”:

1. Gun violence
2. Climate change

Future president Harris/Booker/Klobuchar take note.
:up:
One would think so, along income inequality, and anti the "isms" trump & co have dog whistled and out right stated.

That Israel is not an apartheid state perpetually violating the rights of Palestinians, and that all criticism of Israel amounts to anti-Semitism. Just look at how many Democrats give credence to the ban on BDS. Support of Israel simultaneously allows the right to appear as though they are not anti-Semetic while being a cudgel in their continual war against all things Muslim. And the Democrats have been all too happy to stand together with the GOP on most issues related to Israel and Palestine.
Israel has created a de facto apartheid state in the West Bank for sure. And given that demographics are destiny, this is going to be really akin to Palestinians living in Bantustans really soon. Also given the blatant land grab, the two state solution is almost dead in the water, and Israel has done this to itself. The longer this goes on, the practical solution will look more and more like a one state which necessarily cannot exist as a Jewish one in principle.

I am not particularly religious and therefore not swayed by some loony claims for whose holy land any piece of dirt in the Middle East belongs to. What's more the rest of the world has been held hostage by everyone in that region when it comes to geopolitics for decades to the detriment of us all.

Establishment Democrats are mostly completely one-sided on this issue.

IF I remember correctly APAC is mostly supported by right-wing Jews, or has become so. I'm an ex-Catholic, non-Christian who grew up in a majority Jewish neighborhood in the 60's who absorbed a "Israel can do no wrong " attitude.
By the 80's onward i learned a lot more. I deeply believe in their right to rxist, and deeply criticize their right-wing government and a lot of the mistreatment of the Palestinians (tho their terrorists [not frustrated rock - throwing kids and teens] are complicit, too). There are Jews, Arabs and Palestinians in Israel still fighting for a 2 State solution, and who work on other projects together thete. You just don't hear much about it in general news media.

Oh, and Progressive Jews in the US are begining to flex their muscles more with their "J Street" lobbying group in DC.

Thanks for costing my old neighborhood 25k and a billion in tax revenue a year, AOC.

you'd think choosing to make your speech outdoors on an unseasonable 64 degree February day just before a weekend snow storm would be the perfect setting for declaring a legitimate national emergency, but here we are.
Heh.

25,000 jobs at $150k+. All of those 25k employees would pay city and state tax

Having Amazon there would also bring in other businesses. It would also have been a boom for the restaurants in the neighborhood. Hotels would have seen a huge boost from this - and there are a ton of hotels going up in the Court square section of LIC. That's a shit ton of tax revenue.

The promised 25k were also just tech jobs. That doesn't include the truck drivers, maintenance, clerical, etc. That's tax revenue.

There are the construction companies, the union workers, who now won't be building this massive complex. That's tax revenue.

New high rise residential buildings were being planned. That's now on hold. That's tax revenue.

There was also an intermediate School that Amazon was going to fund... That was my neighborhood. There's a major lack or schools there. It's one of the main reasons why we moved. This deal was going to help that. Now it's gone.

It's also coming at a time where NYC is seeing some companies begin to look elsewhere. But sure, let's turn companies away. Things have always gone well in NYC when the companies look to move. Actually wait, the opposite has happened.

The deal also had high approval marks across every demographic you could think of. You almost never see the city and state agree on anything. They agreed on this.

The biggest argument against it that was used locally - transportation and the bad shape of the subway sysyem - is a bullshit argument. The MTA is in the shit not because of a lack of tax money coming from NYC, but because it's run by the state and not the city - and upstate politicians steal money from the city's giant tax base to fund pet projects upstate. Amazon wasn't changing this one way or another. The only thing that can fix this is for the state to hand over control to the city.

But even with that said - Amazon agreed to help fund infrastructure improvements in the neighborhood. That's gone now.

This 3 billion wasn't some lump sum that was being taken away from something else. It was a discount on money that didn't exist yet. Nobody is getting the 3 billion dollars back now to spend on schools and housing. This is what is being sold, and it's a pile of crap. The 3 billion over 25 years was decreasing new tax payments. Those tax payments now will never happen. Zero dollars will come in now.


And AOC? This isn't her district. It's Carolyn Maloney's district, and she was in favor of the deal. So she came in to help torpedo a deal that wasn't even in her district.

to Amazon in a min.

Ok...
Mixed feelings on this. HAIS you will be glad to hear they are keeping some of the educational stuff for the schools in the area anyway.

My biggest problem with them being here if i have it correct is theyare anti -union. I did not know that! I'm very strongly pro-union.
Something i heard in today's discussion w as how if nyc 'rs demanded a unionization option for employees here it would spread to other Amazon sites. So that was a main reason they left.

We want business but we don 't want businesses with bad practices!
 
Last edited:
I'm glad I didn't watch that disaster. I'm pretty sure I'd have thrown my phone across the train. It just makes me so fucking angry that racist white people voted for THIS in response to the first Black president. Economic anxiety, my ass.

I heard some of it at work today, and I actually wound up covering my ears as best I could after a few moments. I just couldn't stand listening to that bullshit any longer.

To say nothing of how the sound of Trump's voice in and of itself is enough to drive me up the fucking wall. Dear god, he has such an obnoxious voice and way of speaking.
 
I'm glad I didn't watch that disaster. I'm pretty sure I'd have thrown my phone across the train. It just makes me so fucking angry that racist white people voted for THIS in response to the first Black president. Economic anxiety, my ass.

Hillary was just THAT bad a candidate.
 
wasn't suggesting that you were saying that stuff.

even if she is going after the spotlight, how is that such a bad thing that she needs to shut up? she's already energized and engaged so many young people who otherwise likely wouldn't care about politics, just from being relatable on social media. they're more likely to vote next year and they're all going to vote for progressives. i would have thought that would be welcomed here far more than it seems to be.
I didn't say it was bad... I said she needs to be careful. Someone else said she needs to shut up.
 
Hillary was just THAT bad a candidate.
She wasn't. The perception of Hillary was bad. Her reality was actually in line with millions of centrists who voted against her. They voted against her not because of her qualifications or how she ran her campaign. They voted against her because her name was Hillary Clinton
 
She wasn't. The perception of Hillary was bad. Her reality was actually in line with millions of centrists who voted against her. They voted against her not because of her qualifications or how she ran her campaign. They voted against her because her name was Hillary Clinton

I see your point, but perception is reality in a campaign. However she only has herself to blame. Trump was hitting 3 states a day while she was taking days off. Her campaign platform was nebulous, whereas a trump supporter could immediately give 2-3 tangible things he said he’d do. The boomer white women in the Midwest disliked her for 25 years. She phoned it in and got beat.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom