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Old 01-26-2019, 09:45 AM   #221
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https://twitter.com/maddowblog/statu...027572224?s=21
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:33 AM   #222
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...?noredirect=on

I just don't understand people like this.

Who would wear a "costume" like that?
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:49 PM   #223
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Advanced Search-Power Search-California Secretary of State
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Old 01-27-2019, 06:47 AM   #224
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https://ballotpedia.org/History_of_D...ical_donations

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Old 01-27-2019, 07:42 AM   #225
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https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/s...108039681?s=21

What we could have had. Not all of it was “Bernie bro”, but the media fixated on her every little move.
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:07 AM   #226
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How i feel
Too

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status...539224066?s=21
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:31 PM   #227
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if the website was actually working this morning i could show you the exact payments made by steven mnuchin's wife to harris's 2010 re-election campaign only two years before she just so happened to decline to prosecute him for being the CEO of a predatory bank that foreclosed illegally on thousands of mortgages in 2008-09.

edit: ah here we are:


but i guess a candidate for president being a nakedly corrupt cop is just a big ol around here if she has a D next to her name, and i should just stop criticizing any of the candidates because bernie bros ruined everything last time, or something.
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:35 PM   #228
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if the website was actually working this morning i could show you the exact payments made by steven mnuchin's wife to harris's 2010 re-election campaign only two years before she just so happened to decline to prosecute him for being the CEO of a predatory bank that foreclosed illegally on thousands of mortgages in 2008-09.

but i guess a candidate for president being a nakedly corrupt cop is just a big ol around here if she has a D next to her name, and i should just stop criticizing any of the candidates because bernie bros ruined everything last time, or something.
All you posted was about donations. All I responded with was showing that the Trump organization gave donations to a ton of different people across all parties, and up until 2011 donated heavily democratic.

But sure, I implied that Harris should not be criticized and should be nominated without a vote because of you commie rebel rousers.
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Old 01-27-2019, 12:39 PM   #229
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But sure, I implied that Harris should not be criticized and should be nominated without a vote because of you commie rebel rousers.
i wasn't referring to you with that bit, but the other poster who came in after you with the post about "what we could have had...although not all of it was bernie bros".

although admittedly that wasn't made particularly clear.
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Old 01-27-2019, 01:57 PM   #230
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Here’s the thing

We’re on the same side. Clinton’s point was that any time a supporter or her, or herself came out and made a claim, you had hundreds of Bernie supporters to rip her/them to shreds.

My second tweeted post was to state that we will never find a pure candidate. There will be SOMETHING from the past that is dug up, or a statement that isn’t 100% progressive enough for some.

This is does the Democratic Party no good. Why can’t we get behind a candidate that supports 85% of what we want? Why does it have to be all or nothing ? Why does the person even have to be “likable” ?

Harris’ donations and the stuff you posted about her time as a prosecutor should be vetted. But is it possible that she’s changed since moving into congress ? Are we going to say she’s the same as Trump or whatever the GOP has become today ?

We will see the same song and dance in 2020 with the social media trolls, the bickering, and it’ll give Trump the White House again.

Can’t we all just get along?
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:06 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/s...108039681?s=21

What we could have had. Not all of it was “Bernie bro”, but the media fixated on her every little move.


She’s so salty. Legit, all of her interviews have been her complaining about 2016. She has every right to do so but she’s gotta know people don’t really want to hear it.
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:08 PM   #232
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i wasn't referring to you with that bit, but the other poster who came in after you with the post about "what we could have had...although not all of it was bernie bros".

although admittedly that wasn't made particularly clear.


Was this you getting back at headache because he expected you to read his mind? Certainly looks like you’re railing on him and expecting him to read your mind that you’re not actually responding to him
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:31 PM   #233
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You will not move non-voters to vote by running a mythical candidate who will turn them out suddenly. That candidate has never materialized. The non-voters didn’t turn out for Bradley in 2000. They didn’t for Bernie. And they won’t suddenly awaken from their slumber in 2020.
As I said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sanders didn't run in the general. I outlined earlier a long lost of issues the Democratic primary system has, so crying fowl that someone who could not win the Democratic primary against the entrenched candidate who the DNC was literally reliant on for funding because of the financial deal Wasserman-Schultz negotiated does not move me as far as an argument that Sanders would have gotten smoked. Had he run in the general, who knows what would have happened? He is the most popular politician in the United States according to the polls.

Democrats have convinced themselves better things are impossible, and are terrified of trying to run on them. "Access" to healthcare is a great example of Democrats not understanding the first thing about the politics they claim to be the great technocrats of. It is remarkable how they start every issue at their "compromise" position. The reason is two things: they care about looking "responsible," or they don't really believe the things they claim they believe but are "not practical."

"Access" does not move people. Medicare for All does. Obamacare still bankrupts people. And obviously big insurance companies do so all the time. Medicare does not. And people can understand a simple concept like that.

Any Democrat who won't run on Medicare for All does not understand what it takes to win, or does not believe healthcare is a right.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:33 PM   #234
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Anyway, I am glad that we can all agree that Roger Stone's arrest was very fun.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:40 PM   #235
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What Sanders supporters never bring up is the oodles of opposition research he would have faced, including the accusations of being a communist.

Yes, I know. Socialism isn't communism. I know that. I'm not who you have to convince. You have to convince an electorate who voted for a broke con man because he was portrayed as being a successful business titan on TV that socialism isn't communism.
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:45 PM   #236
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One thing I’ll agree with is that the Democrats are way too hesitant/scared when it comes to pushing progressive ideas.

Maybe Obama is a little more progressive if he didn’t have to spend the first year or two of his presidency cleaning up Dubya’s financial mess (and the wars).

I’ll give Bernie this, he did push a more progressive agenda. Forced Clinton to adapt a little bit.

Warren seems to have some of the same ideas, at least in regards to regulating Wall St (which she has tried to pass actual legislation), healthcare, and taxes on the Uber wealthy / corporations
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Old 01-27-2019, 03:50 PM   #237
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What Sanders supporters never bring up is the oodles of opposition research he would have faced, including the accusations of being a communist.

Yes, I know. Socialism isn't communism. I know that. I'm not who you have to convince. You have to convince an electorate who voted for a broke con man because he was portrayed as being a successful business titan on TV that socialism isn't communism.


Oodles of research from an anti-fact opposition? I still think you sincerely disregard the amount of anti-fact voters who would have happily voted for a “socialist” anti establishment white old man who speaks in vague terms and has little clue how he’s going to actually accomplish any of the things he’s promising and probably hasn’t thought that far ahead but he doesn’t apologize for anything!
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:07 PM   #238
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Oodles of research from an anti-fact opposition? I still think you sincerely disregard the amount of anti-fact voters who would have happily voted for a “socialist” anti establishment white old man who speaks in vague terms and has little clue how he’s going to actually accomplish any of the things he’s promising and probably hasn’t thought that far ahead but he doesn’t apologize for anything!
So there's this thing. He did have a vote. And he got creamed. By the person who lost the election. It wasn't close.
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:24 PM   #239
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So there's this thing. He did have a vote. And he got creamed. By the person who lost the election. It wasn't close.


This is what baffles me about the “well we dont know if Bernie would have won.”

You’re right. We don’t know.

But we have ample evidence that he would have gotten clobbered because he sure did in the primary. Sanders did well with white kids in square states, states that were going red anyway. The D base are women and minorities. And they voted for Hillary and which is why she put Bernie to bed after the NY primary. And this is setting aside the notion that she was, you know, vastly more prepared than him in something like foreign policy.

It’s true. Bernie tapped into the sense of a rigged system, and did so very well. Maybe that would have turned T voters into B voters. But given that SCOTUS was on the line and “socialist” still makes some parts of the country wake up screaming in fear, it doesn’t seem likely that there were T votes that could have been B votes and not H votes. Most of America isn’t waiting to have socialism actually explained to them — and explained well, you know, disregarding anything negative as Not Real Socialism. What needs to happen is something like Obamacare. A good step in the right direction, that was always intended to be the first step. Now, D’s can run on it, and win places like Orange County.

But Bernie is a shrewd politician. So maybe he could have pulled it off.

One does wonder who the Kremlin would have backed if HRC had lost the primary.
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Old 01-27-2019, 04:25 PM   #240
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So there's this thing. He did have a vote. And he got creamed. By the person who lost the election. It wasn't close.


You have a really strange interpretation of “creamed.” I would agree that he never really had an honest chance, but primaries typically are not as close as that. The final tally was arbitrarily 55-45. By primaries standards, that’s an incredibly close race. Off the top of my head, only 2008 comes to mind for close primaries. Usually, the opponent is dead in the water by a certain point and his or her campaign falters.

Also, your commutative sort of logic there is a total association fallacy. A beats B and B beats C therefore A beats C? You know fine well the system is far more complex and a simple number ranking.

Bernie didn’t have the infrastructure, support, or assumptive nomination that Clinton had. He wasn’t even a democrat. The cards were stacked heavily against him when it came to making it out of the *democratic* primary. A primary where 35 million (over half) of the voters who chose the democratic candidate in the general election did not vote. The same applies for the opposing side, where the candidate had some 33 million voters more turn out for the general election. 68 million voters who did not vote in primaries, in an election where popular vote clearly didn’t even matter in the end, and you’re going to confidently say that A beats B and B beats C therefore A would have beat C? Really?
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