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Old 06-27-2018, 07:14 PM   #1
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US Politics VIII

I'll be 'damned' if I just lose the long post typed because Dieman closed the VII thread between the time I started it and when I finished it!

As we were, please continue
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:15 PM   #2
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I don't think they were dramatically different. The hero worship of the politics of the 90s confounds me. Clinton got so much credit for being the candidate who "compromised with Congress" and his legacy among Democrats is that he was the guy who "got things done." What they fail to note is what getting things done meant: financial deregulation and throwing black Americans under the bus.

Bill Clinton is a massive piece of shit. The way Democrats pretend his rape allegations never happened is still remarkable to me.

There were more Democrats than just the Clintons, PF, for goodness sakes.

If Bill Clinton did actually rape any of these women then he should get some jail time (as much as it is painful to say that for me - and I started to give it serious thought last year). Paula Jones's case though was taken up I think by a right-wing lawyer, and her timeline in the hotel doesn't match his. As for ? Flowers, etc I don't really know their stories.

As ?for throwing black people under the bus- a mixed record. Welfare 'reform' was always going to hurt more white people than people of color. I believe he twice rejected the more egregious reform bills that the then ?Republican led HR produced. The third one he signed was the least bad.

As for ?Sista Sojourn if I remember correctly she couched a lot of the black struggle in hard-core Socialist Workers type language. Well, I'm not a fan of that (the language, not the struggle for full citizenship, equality, and respect by marginalized groups of people).

posting this now so I don't lose it, will con't

Anyway...
he was one of the first white Presidents, and as a Southern to treat black people more equally. He was taught that way as a kid.

Financial deregulation was/is a terrible thing! We still pay the price. (And now house flipping and carp like that is getting closer to the 2008 per-financial crisis levels.

Pres. Clinton did some good things.
I
Now, PF, (sorry if I am wrong) you're a white guy? Don't know how old your are - 30's, 40's?
To say the Dems and Repubs were practically the same - NO not in certain ways! Women's equality, the right to choose (dammit), the Social Safety Net (in general) is protected (or way more so) by most Democrats. Period.
More Democrats are / or are now beginning to be more woke on issues of discrimination. Many still support unions.

Seems like some damn big differences to me, dude!

Very upset by latest SC news!
Lord, have mercy!

Going to U2 set list stuff to get some relief now.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:36 PM   #3
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Trump still sucks VIII
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:44 PM   #4
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Alright, one more.

trojanchick. I hear you!!!!

PF, when vote counts sometimes get razor thin each local voting precincts, then every goddamn no-vote, third-party vote did "count".

Then throw in the on-going voter suppression of people of color, elders, the disabled, the working poor, etc just made it that much easier for us to have lost.

now I'm going to the set-list!
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:47 PM   #5
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Roe v Wade is dead. Probably about half of the states will criminalize abortion immediately thereafter. Best hope is they do it in advance of 2020 because then you'll see one hell of a case of buyer's remorse.
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:50 PM   #6
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Just want to throw my two cents in...

I don't think there's going to be a "blue wave" either this November. However, I do think there will be some hope - such as more black women winning seats and offices, perhaps Ocasio-Cortez will win the seat, and that gay candidate in Colorado winning the Governor race. But this year's elections will definitely mark a turning point, just not in a way many are hoping for.

The real test will be what kind of candidate the Dems could come up with for 2020. That matters more!
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Old 06-27-2018, 07:51 PM   #7
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Roe v Wade is dead. Probably about half of the states will criminalize abortion immediately thereafter. Best hope is they do it in advance of 2020 because then you'll see one hell of a case of buyer's remorse.
It's moments like these that make me relieved to be living in the liberal bubble of New York.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:10 PM   #8
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Iowa's already trying to do as much as it can to restrict abortion rights-a bill was just passed last month here that's been considered among the strictest of bills related to that issue. And so long as we have the state government that we do, so long as we've people like Steve King still spreading their shit around, I have no doubt they'll continue to do what they can to be even more restrictive on that issue .

Like I said in the last thread, I feel so damn helpless. Fuck this.
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:32 PM   #9
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And know that the court will now be stacked for Trump with any legal stuff that comes out of the Mueller probe.
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Old 06-27-2018, 09:08 PM   #10
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And know that the court will now be stacked for Trump with any legal stuff that comes out of the Mueller probe.
Congress being stacked for Trump will be a bigger issue than the court if anything comes of Mueller.

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Old 06-27-2018, 09:50 PM   #11
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Can an active US President nominate himself to sit on the Supreme Court
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:51 AM   #12
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:28 AM   #13
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...can that even be legal? Not that legalities apparently matter to anyone in this administration, mind, but still...how would that be allowed to happen?

God, fuck you, Trump supporters.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:35 AM   #14
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so much insider trader stuff going on - like the timing of Ivanka's Chinese trademarks

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...p-zte-reversal
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:00 AM   #15
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I can’t shake the dread.

A minority of underinformed voters has a stranglehold on government, and the agenda since 2017 has been to collectively punish those who voted against them.

My only hope is that, if abortion rights come front and center, the Republican women and Flake and Corker and McCain find an ounce of courage somewhere inside themselves to do the right thing.

But there’s very little the Democrats can do. Elections matter. Only democracy can save us, and it’s a democracy that values rural votes more than urban ones.
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:08 AM   #16
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I can’t shake the dread.

A minority of underinformed voters has a stranglehold on government, and the agenda since 2017 has been to collectively punish those who voted against them.

My only hope is that, if abortion rights come front and center, the Republican women and Flake and Corker and McCain find an ounce of courage somewhere inside themselves to do the right thing.

But there’s very little the Democrats can do. Elections matter. Only democracy can save us, and it’s a democracy that values rural votes more than urban ones.
The irony is of course that it's democracy that's being used against us.

The Republicans have figured out how to weaponize democracy, while the Democrats are still playing games.

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Old 06-28-2018, 07:26 AM   #17
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all you urban peeps need to rent/buy a place in the countryside and get your vote registered there or something

really feel for you all - it's bad enough watching from a distance - can't imagine how it feels when it's your own country
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:47 AM   #18
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I can’t shake the dread.

A minority of underinformed voters has a stranglehold on government, and the agenda since 2017 has been to collectively punish those who voted against them.

My only hope is that, if abortion rights come front and center, the Republican women and Flake and Corker and McCain find an ounce of courage somewhere inside themselves to do the right thing.

But there’s very little the Democrats can do. Elections matter. Only democracy can save us, and it’s a democracy that values rural votes more than urban ones.
John McCain is never coming back to Washington.

Corker is pro-life and useless on SCOTUS.

Flake I have no hope in at all, maybe there is a 0.000001% chance you flip him to retire as an independent or some such but I don't see it happening.

Murkowski is probably squishiest because she is actually openly sort of pro-choice and considers Roe/Wade to be settled law. Collins is next, and comes from a fairly libertarian state as well. Women need to pound these two into the ground until they can't stand the pressure. I don't think they'll buckle, in the end they'll be promised some lie by McConnell and fall in line.

And so we don't delude ourselves, it ain't just the gals, the gays are probably going to be hit first by the new SCOTUS. Memories are short for what things were like 20, 30 years ago and my own friends have told me they feel a sense of complacency among the community. Wake up!

The reality is the SCOTUS is gone as is.

What the Democrats need to do is stop mourning this, organize and fight like hell, win every election that is remotely winnable in 2018 and then take back the presidency and both houses in 2020 if they haven't already. Immediately, by which I mean day 1, the newly elected Democratic president, whoever the hell it is, needs to announce that policy change #1 will be to expand SCOTUS to 11, and then stack 2 women, minorities of all stripes even better, and absolutely no older than 40. That is the ONLY way that SCOTUS will not turn your country into Gilead.

If the collective left, be it Hillary voters, centrist Dems, disillusioned independents, Bernie Bros, Jill Stein voters, the lazy, the uninspired-to-vote can't be bothered to get their ass in gear now, then there really is no hope.
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:31 AM   #19
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Rasmussen poll-nearly 1 in 3 Americans think a civil war is likely soon

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/arti...-85307-tbla-27
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Old 06-28-2018, 10:41 AM   #20
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Now, PF, (sorry if I am wrong) you're a white guy? Don't know how old your are - 30's, 40's?
To say the Dems and Repubs were practically the same - NO not in certain ways! Women's equality, the right to choose (dammit), the Social Safety Net (in general) is protected (or way more so) by most Democrats. Period.
More Democrats are / or are now beginning to be more woke on issues of discrimination. Many still support unions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzledbylight View Post
Now, PF, (sorry if I am wrong) you're a white guy? Don't know how old your are - 30's, 40's?
To say the Dems and Repubs were practically the same - NO not in certain ways! Women's equality, the right to choose (dammit), the Social Safety Net (in general) is protected (or way more so) by most Democrats. Period.
More Democrats are / or are now beginning to be more woke on issues of discrimination. Many still support unions.
I am white and I am 27-years-old.

My point is not that they are the same in everyway. My point is that I don't think they are dramatically different, which was more of a bouncing off point to use the turn of phrase in the post I was responding to.

Your argument here is largely about social issues, on which the Democrats are clearly and unquestionably doing better than the Republicans. On gay rights, women's rights, ... there is no doubt what party has the correct stances.

The Democrats do not have that clear distinction on many issues with the economy, foreign policy, and law enforcement. And those three things have a far greater impact on inequality than passing an amendment that says everyone is equal under the law.

Until the Democrats are willing to eschew their ties to Wall Street and corporations (essentially to American capitalism as we know it), are willing to openly and consistently criticize the military industrial complex while adhering to a much more rigid non-interventionist policy, and are willing to dramatically reduce the militarization of the police forces in this country while abolishing ICE and scaling back the Patriot Act, we are going to continue to see cycles in which the GOP takes over and does what it is doing right now.
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