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Old 07-02-2018, 12:56 PM   #81
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i know this isn't exactly "US politics" -- but it's important to watch Europe as well, as even socialist democratic supposed paradises like Denmark have issues.
Hmmm, I'm kinda mixed about this. On one hand, it does allow the immigrants to get out of their enclave and take part more in Danish society. Isn't the isolation of Muslim immigrants in Europe is what leads to terrorism and joining such groups as ISIS?

However, I think this program goes too far. Taking them away for 25 hours a week seems like a lot. And teaching them about Easter and Christmas sounds like their trying to make these immigrants Christian rather than be free to practice their own religion. It sounds like Denmark is trying to make these immigrants give up their own culture and religion, out of fear that one day, Denmark would be mostly Muslim and its Danish culture a faded memory.

If that is case, why not make it easier for Danes to have more kids? From what I understand, the reason why Europe has zero population growth is because taxes make it hard for families to afford two or three kids. You see the wealthy and on-welfare Europeans having all the kids they want, but the average person there struggles to have a kid or two. If Europe really is anxious about losing their culture, history and way-of-life due to population issues, indoctrinating immigrants doesn't sound like the way at all. It would only cause resentment and would also only backfire on them.
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:04 PM   #82
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The problem with Europe integrating their immigrants is that the various countries basically did nothing (aside from help ghettoize the visible minority immigrants) for decades, if not longer if you are talking about the ones that had overseas colonies. And now they're trying aggressive methods like the Danes. There hasn't been natural integration/assimilation the way you have in North America, not that we're perfect here.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:36 PM   #83
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http://thehill.com/homenews/house/39...s-backlash?amp

How is it Paul keeps hiring racist aides that keep sneaking “their” views into Ron’s work? Remember his biography that had a whole section “snuck” into it, and he didn’t notice until running for President?
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Old 07-02-2018, 06:33 PM   #84
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Judging Paul, I entirely do not believe he is responsible for those posts and that content. He doesn’t even seem to use social media.

His ideology is just clouded heavily with racists, folks with prejudice, and the snarky I-know-better-than-you wannabe classical “liberals.”
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Old 07-02-2018, 06:49 PM   #85
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re. Europe and immigration, well i'm not going to get into it here, but it's pretty pointless talking about "Europe" as a single entity in this respect as each country has its own approach to integration/assimilation, and can be vastly different (e.g. Hungary)

there are huge differences between France and Britain for instance (but i have gone on and on about that in another thread)
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Old 07-02-2018, 07:16 PM   #86
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re. Europe and immigration, well i'm not going to get into it here, but it's pretty pointless talking about "Europe" as a single entity in this respect as each country has its own approach to integration/assimilation, and can be vastly different (e.g. Hungary)

there are huge differences between France and Britain for instance (but i have gone on and on about that in another thread)
I think Eastern Europe can basically be excluded from this discussion as it wouldn't be particularly meaningful. There are issues there with minority groups (like Roma for example) but these countries (aside from Russia) do not have histories of colonization nor immigration. What is happening in Hungary is a travesty but they have never really had immigrants, much less visible minority immigrants from outside their culture. We can't compare at all what's happening there with the "ghettos" in Belgium, France, etc. And like you said even among the western European nations there is a significant difference to approaches.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:25 AM   #87
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:51 AM   #88
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It’s one article.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:24 AM   #89
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And articles these days aren't about presenting anything factual, it's only about sensational headlines so they get their "clicks".
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:05 PM   #90
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https://twitter.com/lesleyabravanel/...41742013206528
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:23 PM   #91
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It's kind of funny, this concept of "coastal elites" given that Trump by definition would be one. Except nobody there seems to like him. The man has no friends and the rest of the elites of Manhattan probably find him incredibly gaudy and gauche. The worst of the nouveau riche type. I don't follow NY tabloids but I wonder how his kids fit into that scene, or at least, how they did before this debacle of a presidency. Did they at all manage to transcend the kitch of the Trump brand and integrate into that society or were they on the periphery like him?
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:29 PM   #92
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It's kind of funny, this concept of "coastal elites" given that Trump by definition would be one. Except nobody there seems to like him. The man has no friends and the rest of the elites of Manhattan probably find him incredibly gaudy and gauche. The worst of the nouveau riche type. I don't follow NY tabloids but I wonder how his kids fit into that scene, or at least, how they did before this debacle of a presidency. Did they at all manage to transcend the kitch of the Trump brand and integrate into that society or were they on the periphery like him?
So here's the thing... Trump was definitely part of that scene. More the celebrity side of things vs the old money New York, but he wasn't this pariah.

His kids, especially Jarvanka, we're absolutely in the elite trust fund baby scene. Now? Ehhh not so much.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:34 PM   #93
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So here's the thing... Trump was definitely part of that scene. More the celebrity side of things vs the old money New York, but he wasn't this pariah.

His kids, especially Jarvanka, we're absolutely in the elite trust fund baby scene. Now? Ehhh not so much.
Yeah, I figured he'd have been more into the celebrity scene, because he is a fame whore and loves attention and the truly wealthy avoid it. I have no doubt he'd appear at every party that was well staffed with photographers from the rags.

I remember reading an article about how Barron didn't go to one of the top elite schools, though still something wildly expensive/exclusive and there was debate over whether it was because he had some learning disabilities that required the particular school or the fact that Trump just didn't have the sway to get him into the elite tier.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:36 PM   #94
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I believe Barron went to Fieldston when they were still in NYC, which is one of the best schools in the city.

edit: just checked... Columbia Prep.

Dalton it might not be, but nothing to sneeze about.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:16 PM   #95
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yep, i have family who moved in "high society" in NY back in the day, and the Trumps were definitely part of those circles, well the moneyed circles anyway - i have a few scant titbits but nothing i can say on a public forum anyway
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:19 PM   #96
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Jarvanka sent their kids to 92Y for preschool. I shared an elevator with her a couple of times.

Roman Abramovich also sent his kids there. Awkwarrrrrrrrd.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:34 PM   #97
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It’s one article.
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And articles these days aren't about presenting anything factual, it's only about sensational headlines so they get their "clicks".
Let's not pretend this isn't a frequent way in which these things are framed. The effort to "both sides" everything means making the far left seem as unreasonable as the far right while also making the positions of the Republicans out to be perfectly reasonable sides of the debate, even when it bleeds into the far right political positions as frequently as it does.

This is how the center continues to move to the right, year after year.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:17 PM   #98
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Words I never want to fucking hear again:

snowflake
elite
trump (even in its original, non-name form)
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:18 PM   #99
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Words I never want to fucking hear again:

snowflake
elite
trump (even in its original, non-name form)
Same.
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Old 07-03-2018, 03:41 PM   #100
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Let's not pretend this isn't a frequent way in which these things are framed. The effort to "both sides" everything means making the far left seem as unreasonable as the far right while also making the positions of the Republicans out to be perfectly reasonable sides of the debate, even when it bleeds into the far right political positions as frequently as it does.



This is how the center continues to move to the right, year after year.



I agree with the “both sides” point — and I’ve been saying this for years.

But your framing earlier might just as well have read “fake news!”
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