US Politics VIII - Page 41 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-13-2018, 10:03 AM   #801
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 6,510
Local Time: 03:13 PM
US Politics VIII

I’d vote for the candidate i feel is most qualified and policies that line up for me but more importantly the nation moving forward. That would be 99% of the social programs talked about by Bernie, by us....

If my candidate lost in the primary, i wouldn’t cry about rigged or trash the winner non stop only to convince myself they and the election isn’t worth voting for.

That’s the difference between the two parties. GOP rallies behind whoever makes it to the ticker.

Dems smear the winner as some sort of self fulfilling prophecy as to why they’d never win then blame rest of us for putting up a bad candidate
__________________

BEAL is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:58 AM   #802
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
But put this in perspective. Even the folks that are losing are not losing 90-10 like some fringe.

You’re talking a third to a half of US progressives that are either on the boat or sympathetic to it.

I know peef is routine on saying no compromise. In my eyes that’s true with not compromising with the right. The compromise needs to be internal to progressives.


But they’re only a smidge left of fascism.
__________________

BVS is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 12:41 PM   #803
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,143
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
I’d vote for the candidate i feel is most qualified and policies that line up for me but more importantly the nation moving forward. That would be 99% of the social programs talked about by Bernie, by us....

If my candidate lost in the primary, i wouldn’t cry about rigged or trash the winner non stop only to convince myself they and the election isn’t worth voting for.

That’s the difference between the two parties. GOP rallies behind whoever makes it to the ticker.

Dems smear the winner as some sort of self fulfilling prophecy as to why they’d never win then blame rest of us for putting up a bad candidate
Bingo.

The Republicans jumped on board for Trump even though most knew they shouldn't. They are all in at any cost, even to a fault - and they're setting up to reverse decades of progress because of this. The country is primed to move right (even though the majority want it to move left - thanks founding fathers!) and stay right for the foreseeable future.

This could have horrifying ramifications for everyone who isn't a straight white person of upper middle class stature or above.

Meanwhile the Democrats just keep bickering over how far to the left you are.

Anyone who's outraged by this president needs to unite and elect Democrats and independents en masse this November - whether or not they're a socialist or a DINO.

I don't agree with everything Oscaio-Cortez stands for. But if I was still in NYC and she was in my district you're god damn right I'd be voting for her.

I sure as shit don't agree with Joe Donnelly either, but if he were the candidate in blue in my district, yea - he gets my vote.

You need to take Congress back by any means necessary if you want to get the country headed back to the left again, and then you need to hold on to it.

You need to fight like hell to reverse the effects of gerrymandering, and to keep majority controll through 2020, so that we can clean up this mess, restore our standing internationally, and hopefully salvage what's left of the supreme court.

And fuck they go low we go high - we need to fight dirty and use the same tactics that set us on this course in the first place.

Otherwise we are truly and wholly fucked.
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 08-13-2018, 03:50 PM   #804
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,197
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Trump as frontrunner then nominee earned him a lot of "Never Trumpers."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...16?wprov=sfla1

Perhaps he's a rare exception?
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 05:48 PM   #805
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe View Post
Trump as frontrunner then nominee earned him a lot of "Never Trumpers."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...16?wprov=sfla1

Perhaps he's a rare exception?


Bad link
BVS is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 05:59 PM   #806
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,197
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Er, Google "never Trump republicans." First result. Wikipedia.
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 06:34 PM   #807
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 21,956
Local Time: 10:13 AM
works fine for me
DaveC is online now  
Old 08-13-2018, 07:16 PM   #808
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe View Post
Er, Google "never Trump republicans." First result. Wikipedia.
Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
works fine for me

Really? Weird.
BVS is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:36 PM   #809
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,197
Local Time: 11:13 AM
It's pretty significant that even post-nomination, even on Convention Day, several prominent members of his own party wouldn't support him.

The prominent figures the "Never Trump" movement is throwing around are made of Bush era neocons and establishment types.

Nevertheless, I think the infighting is substantially comparable to the Jimmy Carter/Ted Kennedy rivalry.

A Pat Buchanan like faction of the GOP, as defined by trade wars, is represented by the Trumpsters. No telling if this dies out once he's gone.

https://www.economist.com/united-sta...-their-revenge
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:39 PM   #810
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,143
Local Time: 10:13 AM
By Pat Buchanan faction I'm assuming you mean racist asshole faction.
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:18 PM   #811
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,443
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
works fine for me


Must only work in Canada.
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:38 PM   #812
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 21,956
Local Time: 10:13 AM
oh you're right, now that i look closely i can see it's a canuckipedia link.
DaveC is online now  
Old 08-13-2018, 10:46 PM   #813
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,197
Local Time: 11:13 AM
As in protectionist (Hamiltonian trade warrior/closed border types).

If I had to assume that border control meant racist, imagine what I'd think of the Mexican government, which demands a demographic quota in its population as official policy...
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 08-13-2018, 11:03 PM   #814
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,443
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe View Post
As in protectionist (Hamiltonian trade warrior/closed border types).

If I had to assume that border control meant racist, imagine what I'd think of the Mexican government, which demands a demographic quota in its population as official policy...


Are demographic quotas racist? The US implements this for immigration. As do all other countries that have limited immigration slots. Those are indirect quotas. They’re designed to limit mass migration. They’re not just locally designed to stop influx of populations as economic control on a fair playing field internationally, but also globally designed to prevent systematic infiltration of other cultures. And not in a racist sense. I mean that much in the sense of how the US attempts to globally insert its businesses and general footprint in other countries. Stuff like international aid and development supports US workers abroad, benefits locals, and grows US interests in developing countries. You know, like, signing up for a credit card with an amazing signing bonus. In theory you’d want this deal to be a win-win.

What about literal quotas? Demographic quotas. Affirmative action and the sort. Are they racist? It’s a sticky subject, in my opinion. In theory yes, they are. In theory you’d want systemic racism to not exist. If it didn’t exist, affirmative action is racist. But systemic racism is real. If we don’t have leveled playing fields, minorities do get shat on. So there needs to be a happy medium of merit along with reparation of a broken system.

Luckily our system attempts at that. There are general lottery visas for anyone from any country. There are quotas for people from specific countries. And lastly, there are special visas that are both not-lottery and not demographic specific, that target highly qualified individuals of merit.

System might not be perfect, but I really think we all love to engage in ideological debate about a binary 0/1 system that doesn’t and can’t exist. Our current system is at least the right framework. We need to make it work so that in the future we can happily progress from it.
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:53 AM   #815
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe View Post
It's pretty significant that even post-nomination, even on Convention Day, several prominent members of his own party wouldn't support him.

The prominent figures the "Never Trump" movement is throwing around are made of Bush era neocons and establishment types.

Nevertheless, I think the infighting is substantially comparable to the Jimmy Carter/Ted Kennedy rivalry.

A Pat Buchanan like faction of the GOP, as defined by trade wars, is represented by the Trumpsters. No telling if this dies out once he's gone.

https://www.economist.com/united-sta...-their-revenge


I think limiting never Trumpers to the neocon faction of the right is incorrect.

But it is interesting you bring up Buchanan. I think Trump very much modeled his campaign on Buchanan. Along with Bannon, I think he saw the rise of the alt right and knew there was something there to tap into.

https://youtu.be/Sk-s8hrmpFE
BVS is offline  
Old 08-14-2018, 06:16 AM   #816
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,143
Local Time: 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfistowannabe View Post
As in protectionist (Hamiltonian trade warrior/closed border types).

If I had to assume that border control meant racist, imagine what I'd think of the Mexican government, which demands a demographic quota in its population as official policy...
Oh if it were only the border perhaps you'd gave an argument
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:33 AM   #817
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 6,510
Local Time: 03:13 PM
Donald Trump has made me feel for

The entire GOP primary field
Lavar Ball
Kim Jung Un

And now Omarosa

Every week he sinks lower and lower than people I’d never want to associate with or take their side.

The POTUS just called a black woman a dog over Twitter.

Every damn day it’s more and more embarrassing
BEAL is offline  
Old 08-14-2018, 09:02 AM   #818
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,197
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Are demographic quotas racist? The US implements this for immigration. As do all other countries that have limited immigration slots. Those are indirect quotas. They’re designed to limit mass migration. They’re not just locally designed to stop influx of populations as economic control on a fair playing field internationally, but also globally designed to prevent systematic infiltration of other cultures. And not in a racist sense. I mean that much in the sense of how the US attempts to globally insert its businesses and general footprint in other countries. Stuff like international aid and development supports US workers abroad, benefits locals, and grows US interests in developing countries. You know, like, signing up for a credit card with an amazing signing bonus. In theory you’d want this deal to be a win-win.

What about literal quotas? Demographic quotas. Affirmative action and the sort. Are they racist? It’s a sticky subject, in my opinion. In theory yes, they are. In theory you’d want systemic racism to not exist. If it didn’t exist, affirmative action is racist. But systemic racism is real. If we don’t have leveled playing fields, minorities do get shat on. So there needs to be a happy medium of merit along with reparation of a broken system.

Luckily our system attempts at that. There are general lottery visas for anyone from any country. There are quotas for people from specific countries. And lastly, there are special visas that are both not-lottery and not demographic specific, that target highly qualified individuals of merit.

System might not be perfect, but I really think we all love to engage in ideological debate about a binary 0/1 system that doesn’t and can’t exist. Our current system is at least the right framework. We need to make it work so that in the future we can happily progress from it.
"Are demographic quotas racist? The US implements this for immigration. As do all other countries that have limited immigration slots. Those are indirect quotas. They’re designed to limit mass migration. They’re not just locally designed to stop influx of populations as economic control on a fair playing field internationally, but also globally designed to prevent systematic infiltration of other cultures. And not in a racist sense."

Well put, and I agree.

"Sticky"... meaning nuanced? I think it's cause for some optimism that it is nuanced. It's definitely not direct, as in the 1960s, when you would have that infamous Kodak moment of a cop dog biting at a black man without any foreseeable provocation. There's certainly not a White Supremacy Act of 2018 going on, but there is also no question that minorities inherit some level of disadvantage. They didn't inherit most of the wealth and opportunities, for starters.

As for immigration in particular, the courts are widely inefficient in renewing visas. There's some success in what ethnic enclaves can do both to simultaneously assimilate and preserve one's heritage. Yet there are parts of the US dramatically affected by the drug cartels, and have good reason to demand a secure border.
Macfistowannabe is offline  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:07 AM   #819
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,443
Local Time: 11:13 AM
To clear something up on my post, the “systemic infiltration” I refer to is referencing not only American globalization but also things such as Russian settlements of its people on neighboring lands. There’s a reason nobody put up a fight in Crimea. Everybody was ethnically Russian. There’s a reason everybody was ethnically Russian...

Or Northern Ireland. Perfect example. The British were in a bit of a pickle around the First World War and didn’t have resources to adequately deal with the Irish. Luckily, they’d put “their people” on the ground decades/centuries ago, so simple “referendum” helped them cut their losses.
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 08-14-2018, 11:21 AM   #820
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Macfistowannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,197
Local Time: 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
I think limiting never Trumpers to the neocon faction of the right is incorrect.

But it is interesting you bring up Buchanan. I think Trump very much modeled his campaign on Buchanan. Along with Bannon, I think he saw the rise of the alt right and knew there was something there to tap into.

https://youtu.be/Sk-s8hrmpFE
"I think limiting never Trumpers to the neocon faction of the right is incorrect."

Perhaps (and Kasich-brand center-right establishment types). Though the article I linked to shows that they've taken the most action against him - certainly at the level of electoral politics, recommending voting Democrat to voice frustration with an alleged refusal of the GOP to stand up to him in Congress.

"But it is interesting you bring up Buchanan. I think Trump very much modeled his campaign on Buchanan. Along with Bannon, I think he saw the rise of the alt right and knew there was something there to tap into."

It's been said that Trump doesn't have any core to operate from. I think we both disagree on that. He does echo Pat Buchanan on what he is least compromising on (borders, protectionism). Michael Savage has regularly patted himself on the back for his part in the playbook (whether Trump actually lent an ear to him, who knows).

If they saw the momentum of the alt-right types, I sure didn't. Luckily, I think that's dying down, as "Unite the Right 2" had a much weaker turnout.
__________________

Macfistowannabe is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×