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Old 08-10-2018, 02:42 PM   #741
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they made excellent movies and invented useful things in the soviet union, you know.

humans don't require huge financial incentives to be creative.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:11 PM   #742
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I do think there's a hybrid solution in there somewhere.

Capitalism isn't as bad as the left makes it to to be nor as good as the right says it is. Same goes with socialism.

There's zero reason why we need to fit everything into a nice tidy box.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:42 PM   #743
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We have a tendency to want to sort things into binary-like choices. You’re either tall or short. Skinny or fat. Your hair is discretely blonde or brown or black or red.

It takes a collective of words to describe in-betweens because of how we compartmentalize our choices (it’s simply easier that way).

One of my favorite in-person rants is to blabber about how “schools of thought” are stupid and how we should be a reactionary people basing our decisions on history both near and far, but more importantly basing our decisions on logic, proof, and evidence. Rationalism.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:47 PM   #744
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I do think there's a hybrid solution in there somewhere.

Capitalism isn't as bad as the left makes it to to be nor as good as the right says it is. Same goes with socialism.

There's zero reason why we need to fit everything into a nice tidy box.


Hear hear! This can’t be expressed enough.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:58 PM   #745
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yeaaaa New York is most definitely not losing population.



LA's population, and California as a whole, also continues to rise. California's state population hit 40 million this year, an all time high.

Chicago has seen a three year decline. So you're right on that one.

But most major cities... Houston, Seattle, Boston, Dallas, San Francisco etc. continue to grow year after year.
Well, must be conflicting data, I had seen that year over year, New York City was declining recently, and that California, again recent, year over year was losing population, but these numbers I'm sure can be used however we want to use them. We would need another few years to see if there is a definite trend in population change for NYC or California. Not sure about NYC, but Cali is becoming increasingly expensive, like Illinois.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #746
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Well, must be conflicting data, I had seen that year over year, New York City was declining recently, and that California, again recent, year over year was losing population, but these numbers I'm sure can be used however we want to use them. We would need another few years to see if there is a definite trend in population change for NYC or California. Not sure about NYC, but Cali is becoming increasingly expensive, like Illinois.
There's no conflicting data. There's facts, and not.

A lot of people leave NYC at a high rate, largely due to price. But more people move in than move out, by a decent clip.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:07 PM   #747
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There's no conflicting data. There's facts, and not.

A lot of people leave NYC at a high rate, largely due to price. But more people move in than move out, by a decent clip.
This is what I saw, so focused on Brooklyn, so you're right, may not be indicative of the total city.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/...inking/556280/
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:12 PM   #748
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This is what I saw, so focused on Brooklyn, so you're right, may not be indicative of the total city.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/...inking/556280/
That article managed to name every reason under the book yet failed to even talk about the most used subway line in Brooklyn being shut down for a few years for Sandy repairs

Alas... the overall city population is still rising, at a high rate.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:26 PM   #749
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Well, must be conflicting data, I had seen that year over year, New York City was declining recently, and that California, again recent, year over year was losing population, but these numbers I'm sure can be used however we want to use them. We would need another few years to see if there is a definite trend in population change for NYC or California. Not sure about NYC, but Cali is becoming increasingly expensive, like Illinois.
Population growth in California has slowed, mostly due to lower immigration rates. However, the population is in fact still growing. Yes, it's expensive, but that's because the economy is booming. If California were a country our economy would be the 5th biggest in the world just ahead of the United Kingdom.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:28 PM   #750
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they made excellent movies and invented useful things in the soviet union, you know.

humans don't require huge financial incentives to be creative.
Seriously, the United States is the richest nation in the world, in SPITE of our government's attempts to bankrupt us over the years. It's the richest nation in the world because of capitalism. People want to come here, because of capitalism.

People are FLEEING socialist nations, because they like to eat.

Once you take competition out of any industry, the quality suffers. We have the best medical care on earth, because talented people become doctors, because they can make a good living. if you take away the competitive portion of private medicine, the quality goes down.

The government's involvement in healthcare, and public education, are complete failures and disasters. We need LESS government, not more.

I am not wealthy, I am probably low middle class as far as income. But I like the idea that I can work my way up, and that mu children can get into any field they like, and be rewarded, not punished if they are successful.

The people that benefit from socialism, are usually not contributing much to society to begin with. That's why government aid, should not be a lifestyle choice.

Again, I challenge all of you who are "Pro Socialism", how much money would it take out of your pocket if socialism were furthered in this country?

My guess is many of you either pay very little in taxes, or get it all back (and maybe more) in a tax return. So you would be impacted very little.

But it's easier to spend OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, i.e "the government", i.e. "taxpapers", than your own to help those that you consider "less fortunate".

Wealth redistribution ideas are purely out of greed and jealousy. Why do YOU or ANYONE else deserve to have money given to YOU, that was taken from someone else?

Wealth is not finite, wealth can be created, that's the beauty of capitalism. That's why America is the biggest and greatest economy in the world. But people have to not be afraid to work for it. No one is owed anything.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:38 PM   #751
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I haven't been keeping up. How's the "Be Best" campaign going?
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:55 PM   #752
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I think there is a lot of compelling evidence out there for the power of market economies (which I think is a better term than "capitalism"), like the significant reduction in extreme poverty around the globe as markets have taken firmer hold.


That said, I agree with Ruckman that industries essential to basic survival and opportunity, like healthcare, food, housing, and education, should not be left entirely to the whims of the free market. Just the last decade has seen significant market failures in housing and education, for example, with healthcare probably just around the corner if it's not there already.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:03 PM   #753
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Just the last decade has seen significant market failures in housing and education, for example, with healthcare probably just around the corner if it's not there already.
Just yesterday I saw a child who hasn't been taking prescribed medications for several months because the family has been without insurance. It's been a few years since I've seen a child without access to health insurance, but there you are.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:11 PM   #754
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Trump is flipping his wig over NFL kneeling again
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:14 PM   #755
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I haven't been keeping up. How's the "Be Best" campaign going?

Lol. Well Melania's parents became citizens a few days ago. Before SIL changes the rules.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:16 PM   #756
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Trump is flipping his wig over NFL kneeling again
The NFL at large really should tell him point blank to get his stupid mouth out of this debate already. Maybe remind him that he's not exactly the best guy to be ranting about patriotism, either, considering the way he's letting Russia screw over the U.S. right now.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:18 PM   #757
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The NFL at large really should tell him point blank to get his stupid mouth out of this debate already. Maybe remind him that he's not exactly the best guy to be ranting about patriotism, either, considering the way he's letting Russia screw over the U.S. right now.
No.

They should just ignore him and not react to anything he says or does.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:26 PM   #758
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Once you take competition out of any industry, the quality suffers. We have the best medical care on earth, because talented people become doctors, because they can make a good living. if you take away the competitive portion of private medicine, the quality goes down.



No, healthcare is a perfect example of where capitalism fails; have you ever wondered why we have viagra but no real cure for diabetes?
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:35 PM   #759
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Seriously, the United States is the richest nation in the world, in SPITE of our government's attempts to bankrupt us over the years. It's the richest nation in the world because of capitalism. People want to come here, because of capitalism.
which i guess is why canada is experiencing a record number of americans claiming asylum at our borders right now.

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People are FLEEING socialist nations, because they like to eat.
yes socialist shitholes such as norway, sweden, and denmark are experiencing such massive famines right now and people definitely don't want to be in those countries.

and before you say venezuela, what's happening there is the result of an authoritarian regime desperate to cling to power ruling a command economy, which is completely independent of socialist thought and which nobody wants to implement in north america. oppression and starvation happens in dictatorships both left and right and i can give you many examples of right-wing dictatorships that were much worse than venezuela.

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Once you take competition out of any industry, the quality suffers. We have the best medical care on earth,
lmao not even close.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...ystems_in_2000

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because talented people become doctors, because they can make a good living. if you take away the competitive portion of private medicine, the quality goes down.
that explains why the US is #37 on that list and cuba is #39 i guess. and all those countries with socialized healthcare like france, the UK, and canada are so much lower on that list too.

wait a sec, they're actually #1, #18, and #30. let's just call it "conflicting data" so that we don't have to actually talk about that in any meaningful way.

the best cancer research and treatment centre in the world is in toronto, btw.

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The government's involvement in healthcare, and public education, are complete failures and disasters. We need LESS government, not more.

I am not wealthy, I am probably low middle class as far as income. But I like the idea that I can work my way up, and that mu children can get into any field they like, and be rewarded, not punished if they are successful.
yes, i hope your children get very lucky and have good connections in addition to a strong work ethic, so that they can be successful, and that they don't get sick and become bankrupted by hospital bills, or get hopelessly hooked on opioid painkillers by a doctor's prescription, or get hit by a car and left with scars that prevent them from working, or any of the other myriad ways people can become destitute and impoverished through no fault whatsoever of their own.

it's a nice thought that the world works like a machine that you insert 5 work tokens into and get 20 success units back but that's not even remotely close to reality and it's pretty weird that you seem to think it does as a grown adult.

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The people that benefit from socialism, are usually not contributing much to society to begin with. That's why government aid, should not be a lifestyle choice.
all of canada is not contributing much to society because we as a society benefit from universal healthcare?

if i had to pay out of pocket for medical expenses i would be dead right now because i wouldn't have been able to afford to get treatment for my depression, and i would almost certainly have killed myself 10 years ago.

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Again, I challenge all of you who are "Pro Socialism", how much money would it take out of your pocket if socialism were furthered in this country?

My guess is many of you either pay very little in taxes, or get it all back (and maybe more) in a tax return. So you would be impacted very little.
i pay nearly 45% off my paycheque to taxes and would happily pay more if it meant that more poor kids get a chance at a higher education, or their parents don't have to make a choice between buying them food or buying them school supplies because they can't afford both.

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But it's easier to spend OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, i.e "the government", i.e. "taxpapers", than your own to help those that you consider "less fortunate".
the amount of money i personally have to spare would accomplish absolutely nothing real for the "less fortunate". sure i can buy lunch for a homeless guy but that doesn't help him get a job, get off drugs, save up rent for an apartment, write a resume, or get clothes to wear to an interview. the amount i have would do nothing to really benefit that person in any way without bankrupting myself to accomplish it. but the amount the state already has definitely could. surely you're aware that pooling resources allows for more effective use of those resources, it's a big part of why people get married after all - everything is cheaper to you as an individual if you share expenses.

a million people giving $10 each to random homeless people isn't going to do anything to address the problem of homelessness, but pool that $10,000,000 together and you could do something to make things genuinely better.

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Wealth redistribution ideas are purely out of greed and jealousy. Why do YOU or ANYONE else deserve to have money given to YOU, that was taken from someone else?
wanting the society i live in to be healthier and for us all to live longer lives and be better educated and happier and more productive is a sign of greed and jealousy? and somehow "what's mine is mine, screw you get your own" is not pure greed?

your notion of socialism is completely fucked. nobody is going to come to your house and take all your stuff in a socialist system. if you build a table in your home workshop nobody is coming to take it from you and give it for free to someone who doesn't have a table. socialism is that you can sell your table to the poor family that doesn't have one for a price that they can afford, because profit isn't the primary focus of every transaction. and that family can also now afford to put food on their new table, because they don't have to spend every penny they earn buying insulin to keep their diabetic child alive.

what exactly is so inherently horrid about that?
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:08 PM   #760
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There's no conflicting data. There's facts, and not.

A lot of people leave NYC at a high rate, largely due to price. But more people move in than move out, by a decent clip.


Ayup.
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