US Politics VII
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Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
This much is true.
I think it's OK to call out Michelle Wolf. What I don't think you can do is call out Michelle Wolf and then try to defend Donald Trump (on grounds of civility anyway). At least you can't do it and retain your credibility.
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Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Exactly. That's the point. The Trump supporters have zero room to complain about anyone being mean to them/Trump/his administration, or making jokes about them, because they cheered Trump for "telling it like it is" and "not being PC" and not worrying about pissing off "sensitive" people. If that's the world they want to live in, fine, but they need to realize that that means the nasty rhetoric is going to go both ways as a result. And if we have to suck it up with our offense at something somebody says about us, then so do they. I don't get why they don't have to give a crap about our feelings and that's okay, but we have to be gentle with theirs. I keep hearing people say that we have to reach out and try and understand where they're coming from, but nobody tells them they need to do the same for us.
That being said, personally, I'd much rather have a calmer, quieter dialogue, and always try and engage in that kind of conversation when and where possible. But all the Trump supporters I've tried talking to don't really seem all that interested in that kind of conversation. They just continue to dig in their heels and believe the lies and BS this administration puts out, and accuse anyone who tries to tell them otherwise of lying, or mock those of us who try and explain why what this administration says and does is so troubling. So when talking doesn't work, what do you do then?
I didn't see the WHCD itself-I've just read snippets from Wolf's routine. From what I've read, I did see a couple comments about Ivanka that could be seen as perhaps a little too personal, and maybe there were other moments of that sort in the routine itself that I haven't read that did cross a line, or at least walk it very finely. If that's the case, then yeah, I can sympathize with the sentiment that we don't need to go there.
But most of what I've read wasn't personal jabs so much as it was just calling out this administration for being a clusterfuck of lies, which...it is. People are frustrated and angry. They feel like they've stepped into the Twilight Zone with how much bullshit people are willing to swallow from this administration, and are beyond tired of trying to explain to Trump supporters why this administration is so horrible. So I'm not surprised that frustration would manifest in a rather acerbic routine as a result.
I'd also note that from what I've read, Wolf also had a couple zingers towards the Democrats/MSNBC/CNN, too, so it's not exactly like they escaped unscathed.
That being said, personally, I'd much rather have a calmer, quieter dialogue, and always try and engage in that kind of conversation when and where possible. But all the Trump supporters I've tried talking to don't really seem all that interested in that kind of conversation. They just continue to dig in their heels and believe the lies and BS this administration puts out, and accuse anyone who tries to tell them otherwise of lying, or mock those of us who try and explain why what this administration says and does is so troubling. So when talking doesn't work, what do you do then?
I didn't see the WHCD itself-I've just read snippets from Wolf's routine. From what I've read, I did see a couple comments about Ivanka that could be seen as perhaps a little too personal, and maybe there were other moments of that sort in the routine itself that I haven't read that did cross a line, or at least walk it very finely. If that's the case, then yeah, I can sympathize with the sentiment that we don't need to go there.
But most of what I've read wasn't personal jabs so much as it was just calling out this administration for being a clusterfuck of lies, which...it is. People are frustrated and angry. They feel like they've stepped into the Twilight Zone with how much bullshit people are willing to swallow from this administration, and are beyond tired of trying to explain to Trump supporters why this administration is so horrible. So I'm not surprised that frustration would manifest in a rather acerbic routine as a result.
I'd also note that from what I've read, Wolf also had a couple zingers towards the Democrats/MSNBC/CNN, too, so it's not exactly like they escaped unscathed.
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
What in the world is possibly offensive about anything Wolf said? She said nothing offensive, she just called the PR wing of this abominable administration out for doing exactly that. In what way was it unnecessarily cruel?
The people who help to carry out atrocities all over the world don't deserve a night to kick back and relax and hear light hearted "we're all in this together" type jokes. That's what WHCD often is, and it's a fucking insult to everyone who seriously suffers because of the politics of this country.
This sums up my feelings. Every person, ESPECIALLY every media member and political professional, who made a big stink about Wolf's comments, is absolutely fucking worthless.
The worthless Washington media
The people who help to carry out atrocities all over the world don't deserve a night to kick back and relax and hear light hearted "we're all in this together" type jokes. That's what WHCD often is, and it's a fucking insult to everyone who seriously suffers because of the politics of this country.
This sums up my feelings. Every person, ESPECIALLY every media member and political professional, who made a big stink about Wolf's comments, is absolutely fucking worthless.
The worthless Washington media
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
Calling out Michelle Wolf says the following: "Most political issues don't impact me. I care about civility above all else. This is really just sport to me. The thing that bothers me most about political discourse is when people aren't polite to each other and say rude things. The fact that politics is, at its core, a battle of who gets what and who doesn't is completely lost on me and doesn't enter my head on a regular basis because I live a relatively comfortable life."
Fuck civility. We need politics to be not so civil. Civility covers up the brutality of a political system that destroys lives. Lives abroad AND lives at home.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Like all congenital liars, Trump lies about things he doesn't need to lie about. And he probably doesn't even think he's lying half the time.
He's far from a normal politician. That said, when you strip away all the lies, the stupid Tweets, the vulgarity, the complete lack of character, etc., policy wise he's done things that more or less any other Republican President would have (for better or worse).
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
Which is still extremely horrifying. The Republican Party is a brutal party that ruins many aspects of society anytime they are in power.
My hope is that the Democrats learn their lesson and not make any other elections about fucking tone the way they did in 2016.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Her routine didn't cross "the line". People equating her comparison of Sanders to Aunt Lydia as insulting Sanders' looks are misinformed (and insulting to the actress who plays her), the comparison was about the TV character's role on the show.
Kathy Griffin crossed "the line" with the Trump beheading skit, this did not.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Actually I was OK with what Kathy Griffin did. And it wasn't a "skit". Anyway, she didn't deserve to lose her career over it.
And no one can convince me that if Aunt Lydia had been played by Rachel Weisz that Wolf would have made the comparison.
And no one can convince me that if Aunt Lydia had been played by Rachel Weisz that Wolf would have made the comparison.
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BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Which in itself has completely changed the decorum of what should be considered the highest office of our country.
Lolz
Captain Contrarian strikes again.
Captain Contrarian strikes again.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I just read that whole transcript twice.
Some parts were a bit mean, but what was sexist or over the line about it? Isn't this always a roast??
And for God's sake can we please retire the strawman trope about what we all would have done had this happened to to President Hillary (pro tip: she'll never be President) and the implication that women scream about sexism anytime a woman is criticized. It's so old and so stupid.
Some parts were a bit mean, but what was sexist or over the line about it? Isn't this always a roast??
And for God's sake can we please retire the strawman trope about what we all would have done had this happened to to President Hillary (pro tip: she'll never be President) and the implication that women scream about sexism anytime a woman is criticized. It's so old and so stupid.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
I feel like a lot of people on the right who try and make that argument seem to forget that not everyone on the left was a fan of Hillary, either, and may have found jokes about her just as funny.Hell, those that do like her could easily handle and laugh at some jokes about her, too.
ImOuttaControl
Refugee
I never said anything in the skit was sexiest, just that if and when roles are reversed sexism is one of the first labels thrown out there. Just like labeling anyone who opposed Obama as an obvious racist.
And yes, I'd like someone to show me the mythical golden age where presidents and press secretaries didn't lie. (Bush=we do not torture, Obama= The government does not spy on you, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor...etc)
And yes, I'd like someone to show me the mythical golden age where presidents and press secretaries didn't lie. (Bush=we do not torture, Obama= The government does not spy on you, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor...etc)
Again, a tired old trope.
When Trump went birther, that was based in racism.
When Republicans e-mailed ha-ha photos of the Obamas on the bodies of gorillas, that was racist.
When people criticized Obama for say, his "red line" in Libya, that was not racist, nor were they all "labeled" as obvious racists.
Let's stop making this up too.
iron yuppie
ONE love, blood, life
There has to be a part of Hillary that laughs about the persistent stranglehold she has on the Right's imagination.
Guess we can all stop talking about smokey eye now...
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
To be fair, pretty sure that ImOuttaControl is talking about how some people would point to a criticism of Obama as racist even though there was no basis in that. It did happen alongside the actual racism that happened.
Same re Clinton. There would be people crying sexism at any criticism even when it's not there.
Maybe someone criticizing Obama/Clinton IS racist/sexist deep down, but it's stupid to assume or generalize that all criticism is rooted in that.
Same re Clinton. There would be people crying sexism at any criticism even when it's not there.
Maybe someone criticizing Obama/Clinton IS racist/sexist deep down, but it's stupid to assume or generalize that all criticism is rooted in that.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Also, can we retire this "elite" bullshit? This Koch-backed couple who were all sniffy about Wolf's speech are just the worst kind of disingenuous.
Mueller Has Dozens of Inquiries for Trump in Broad Quest on Russia Ties and Obstruction https://nyti.ms/2Kos2BI
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
God, yes, please. I'd love to see that and the whole "people who live on the coasts just don't understand the people in middle America/share their values" (and vice versa) BS die.
ImOuttaControl
Refugee
The amount of times I encountered people over those 8 years who literally said that opposition to Obama in general was because "people just can't deal with having a black president" as well as reading it on this forum says to the contrary.
I never said racism was non existent nor that the racism label was always used in every instance, but in my experience it is something I heard as a teacher, colleague and in discussions with my liberal friends all the time. Labels are used all the time to shut down discourse.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
So, when Kim meets Trump at the DMZ, do you think he kills him on the spot?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
nevermind.
mama cass
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
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it's not cruelly mocking them to their face, it's calling people, who should know better given their public position, out on their rank hypocrisy
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
So we’re all agreed now, re: the questions: obstruction is a slam dunk, and Jared is guilty AF.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Sorry, this isn't one of your Occupy protests or Resistance Cell meetings. Call and Response/Mic Check/Group Agreement doesn't work here.
Depends on whether or not you're an honest broker
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