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Agreed. Thanks for being a reasonable voice among the partisan zealots on this site. We all know that if the tables were turned and a hypothetical President Clinton had been so attacked, most in this forum would be rabidly defending her and calling the personal attacks as sexist, demand apologies and organizing boycotts of the comedians sponsors. Wolf has rightly been admonished by many on the right and the left.

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first of all let's not compare this to an attack on hillary because this wasn't an attack on trump, it was aimed at his press secretary.

nothing about the routine was sexist in any way shape or form so let's leave that steaming pile of bullshit right where it lies.

and if hillary's press secretary told absurd, easily-falsifiable lies on a daily basis to the american people, nobody would be foaming at the mouth with rage that someone called that press secretary a liar.
 
and if hillary's press secretary told absurd, easily-falsifiable lies on a daily basis to the american people, nobody would be foaming at the mouth with rage that someone called that press secretary a liar.

Well HRC didn't need a Press Secretary for that...she was more that capable of that quite on her own.

Yeah, yeah. Trump is worse. Everyone knows that.
 
What Seth Myers said to Obama's face...

What happened to you? When you were sworn in you looked like the guy from the Old Spice commercials. Now you look like Louis Gossett, Sr. I have never said this to anyone before, but maybe you should start smoking again. Is this the change you were talking about? Mr. President, look at your hair. If your hair gets any whiter the Tea Party is going to endorse it. Ooohh, I'm going to get an angry voice mail from Jenny Thomas in 19 years.

so mean of that mean meany.
 
On Thursday night, Mr. Imus began by shuffling some papers in front of him, saying that they did not appear to be his notes. He wondered where they had come from, and said that they did not look like papers someone would leave lying around.

He then looked directly at Mrs. Clinton, making an obvious connection to an aide's finding of papers important to the Whitewater investigation "lying around" in a room at the White House. Later, Mr. Imus jokingly referred to Mrs. Clinton's having been "indicted."

He also made insulting references to Speaker Newt Gingrich's lesbian half sister, Senator Bob Kerrey's "wooden leg," and Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr.'s hair transplant, and allusions to the marital problems of several television people in the room.

"His satire was in many ways brilliant," said a television correspondent who was there but who insisted on anonymity, "but it was deeply and personally cutting. The President, the First Lady and Speaker Gingrich were clearly not amused; you could see by their faces. But it was Imus to the hilt; he was right on his game."

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/23/us/unexpectedly-the-clintons-are-skewered-at-a-dinner.html


:sad:
 
Now see, I think Imus's (who was never funny and consistently classless) comments were over the line as well. And he joked about Bill Clinton having sex in his pickup truck in front of his wife and the First Lady of the United States. Unnecessarily cruel. Joking about Clinton's sex life was (and is) fair game, but Imus had his radio show 5 days a week to do that. He could have given it a rest for one night....even though he may have been "honest".

In any event, I believe he took quite a bit of heat from the left for that (and Republicans probably predicable defended it). Everyone runs to their own little sides when these things happen. Again, tribalism....judging not what was said, but who said it and to/about whom.

In any event, like the case with Wolf, the White House Correspondence Association found Imus's comments regretful and uncivil as well.
 
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It's been a learning opportunity for so many. Just think how many people now know what a "smoky eye" is!
 
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first of all let's not compare this to an attack on hillary because this wasn't an attack on trump, it was aimed at his press secretary.

nothing about the routine was sexist in any way shape or form so let's leave that steaming pile of bullshit right where it lies.

and if hillary's press secretary told absurd, easily-falsifiable lies on a daily basis to the american people, nobody would be foaming at the mouth with rage that someone called that press secretary a liar.

Yeah, no kidding. I know the difference between Clinton and Sanders. The point is that that If it would have been a similar routine and the target would have been a female democrat, you guys would be decrying it as sexist blah blah blah. But, considering that it was a conservative woman, AKA the white equivalent to an Uncle Tom, it is cheered on by the majority of you. That's the point Nick is trying to make. If there was nothing wrong with the act, then why did so many pundits--liberal and conservative-- quickly condemn it?

"Absurd, easily falsifiable lies." Pretty much sums up the average job of any press secretary, liberal or conservative.
 
Our ice cream man, Arizona Governor Doug Ducey...ignores the students marching and protesting in the Capitol during the MarchForYourLives protests, then gets the fuck out of town as 50,000 teachers using sick days to push for funding not just for raises (Arizona is 50th nationally in average teacher salary adjusted for cost of living), but support staff and tech/supplies.


Arizona passed a voter-initiated proposition to fund schools, and a cent sales tax was passed, and on both occasions, the state took the money into the general fund, then dropped the corporate tax rate to "cause development that will increase overall revenue", defunded schools by over $350M (to be paid for by this "expected growth")...so, to put it all clear, they created a trough to be filled by voter-approved funds and growth, stole the voter-approved funds, the "growth" hasn't come close to their budget numbers, and the trough is still just as big. So the teachers are finally striking/performing sickouts. And Ducey and the legislature leave town.

So...a common element to these two events? A group of people who call themselves "patriots", associated with the Kingman Patriots, a militia group...a group that comes to these events, sometimes with assault weapons, and shouts people down. One in particular, who my daughter (a leader for her school in the MarchForOurLives/#neveragain movement) refers to as "bad eyeliner lady", who walked into their silent protest at the Capitol and started videoing and shouting down teenagers (she shook my kid pretty bad as she exited after her time was done at the protest) is also friends with two women who vandalized a Tempe mosque with their small children in toe and filmed it...and posted it on Facebook, leading to arrests. The group is well known to Arizona law enforcement, and Ducey was out to speak to a group they are affiliated with.

Ducey couldn't be in town for the teacher march, but he had time to pose with crazy eyeliner lady and her crew. There are rumors the "OK" sign one is flashing is a white power thing. I don't know about that. But here is our Governor...battling old Ev Mecham for "Worst Leader in the History of Arizona".

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...sh-photo-patriot-movement-az-group/563195002/
 
Yeah, no kidding. I know the difference between Clinton and Sanders. And If it would have been a similar routine and the target would have been a female democrat, you guys would be decrying it as sexist blah blah blah. But, considering that it was a conservative woman, AKA the white equivalent to an Uncle Tom, it is cheered on by the majority of you. That's the point Nick is trying to make.

"Absurd, easily falsifiable lies." Pretty much sums up the average job of any press secretary, liberal or conservative.

If you can't see the difference between what the press secretary position has become in this administration vs past adminstrations, then there's zero point in having any discussion with you on the matter.

And please don't call me a Democrat. Thanks.
 
Just to add...in this state, no one in leadership ever should post with anyone who has association with the words "Kingman" and "Militia".

Those who remember Oklahoma City and Terry Nichols and, to a lesser extent in this association, Timothy McVeigh, and live in Arizona should know this. Kingman militia members played a part in that narrative.
 
If you can't see the difference between what the press secretary position has become in this administration vs past adminstrations, then there's zero point in having any discussion with you on the matter.

And please don't call me a Democrat. Thanks.

Ahh there is the expected response! What term would you prefer? Most on here come across as angry zealots with a few exceptions.
 
The upside is two pretty large groups, students and teachers, are pushing back on our state in different movements, but both with large numbers and public support. Our special election for CD8 representative, a district that went 27+% for Trump, with a name Republican vs a newcomer Dem, was a 52/48 election win for the R. Another in a national narrative, and while percentage points can be explained away in non-incumbent races, 20%+ cannot.
 
The point is that that If it would have been a similar routine and the target would have been a female democrat, you guys would be decrying it as sexist blah blah blah.

no, we wouldn't, because those of us who actually watched the video to make informed comments on it know that there was nothing sexist about the routine. you should try watching the routine as well, so that next time you can make *informed* comments as well.

But, considering that it was a conservative woman, AKA the white equivalent to an Uncle Tom, it is cheered on by the majority of you.

if it had been sean spicer on the receiving end we'd be reacting the exact same way.

"Absurd, easily falsifiable lies." Pretty much sums up the average job of any press secretary, liberal or conservative.

i'd love to see an example of one of obama's press secretaries peddling something like the biggest-inauguration-crowd-ever nonsense, or claiming that "even hitler didn't gas his own people". please provide one. just one.
 
The only parts of the speech I'm familiar with were:

a) smokey eye
b) Aunt Lydia; and
c) the part where she blasted the media for basically loving/using Trump for the ratings and subscriptions

So it was both funny and sad to see so many in the media clutch their pearls over this. A little sensitive over being called out on their bullshit, perhaps. Or not wanting to lose their access.

Oh, and nice to know that many people clutching their pearls over a comedian being "vulgar" or "mean" say absolutely jack shit when we have a president who does the same thing on a regular basis.

Welcome to America, 2018.
 
Yeah, no kidding. I know the difference between Clinton and Sanders. The point is that that If it would have been a similar routine and the target would have been a female democrat, you guys would be decrying it as sexist blah blah blah. But, considering that it was a conservative woman, AKA the white equivalent to an Uncle Tom, it is cheered on by the majority of you. That's the point Nick is trying to make. If there was nothing wrong with the act, then why did so many pundits--liberal and conservative-- quickly condemn it?

"Absurd, easily falsifiable lies." Pretty much sums up the average job of any press secretary, liberal or conservative.





What in the routine was sexist? I saw nothing about bleeding or fat pigs or dogs or face-lifts or how she would do anything for a donation.

I get not liking the joke, but get mad about the right thing.

You’re also doing that thing where you’re presuming people’s behavior in response to an imagined event.
 
Crikey, that's the new standard. As long as Trump has done something worse, it's OK.

Welcome to America, 2018.
If that's a response to my post, I did not say that.

I'm saying it's "interesting" to see people holding a comedian to a higher standard than the president.
 
If that's a response to my post, I did not say that.

I'm saying it's "interesting" to see people holding a comedian to a higher standard than the president.

The second part was call back to what you said ("welcome to America"). I wasn't even thinking about you with the first bit.

Obviously the President should be held to the highest standard...something Trump never disappoints in failing to meet. But Trump's own bad behaviour should not be an excuse for anyone else's.

i'd love to see an example of one of obama's press secretaries peddling something like the biggest-inauguration-crowd-ever nonsense, or claiming that "even hitler didn't gas his own people". please provide one. just one.

Well Jay Carney repeated many times President Obama's false claim (well, lets's call it what it was, a lie that he know was a lie) "if you like your health care plan, you can keep it", which was the Politifact 2013 "Lie of the Year."

Dunno. That lie might have been a little more consequential than the inauguration crowd size lie. Carney also stretched the truth a few other times I can think of, but no point in turning this thread into a food fight about that.

Not suggesting Trump isn't the lyingy lyingest President of them all. He probably is. But I also think most of the other ones were just better at it. All those lies that got the US into the Iraq war were much more convincing than any of Trump's lies.
 
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There's a clear difference between making statements on policy or on events that change and/or turn out to be incorrect down the line vs. making blatantly false statements that you know are bullshit at the time you said them.

There's also the sheer volume of lies that is different than anything else we've seen.
 
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Not suggesting Trump isn't the lyingy lyingest President of them all. He probably is. But I also think most of the other ones were just better at it. All those lies that got the US into the Iraq war were much more convincing than any of Trump's lies.

Oh, sure. But it's a totally different world of lying.

I expect politicians to lie. And they often lie about things with dire consequences. Sometimes it's completely intentional (whaddup, Iraq war), maybe sometimes it isn't (I don't know for sure about the ACA stuff - "keep your doctor" and whatnot).

Now we have Trump who just can't seem to NOT lie, about stuff that's inconsequential but obviously a lie (crowd numbers), and very consequential (voter fraud numbers). And on and on and on. There are oodles of collections of all his lies so far out there.

Some of it may not be intentional lying, since he obviously doesn't know very much about how the government actually works, but I don't understand how Trump is remotely comparable to a "regular" politician we just assume is lying because hey, politics.
 
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