US Politics VII

[corianderstem]

I called my reps yesterday, and also found a link to a church in TX who is providing shelter for immigrants seeking asylum - they have an Amazon wish list for kids' stuff, so I sent them a few things.

There's a rally in Seattle on Sunday and I am going.

I'm livid about this, and the arguments from the "other side" drive me crazy. "Then don't come here illegally!" "Then don't bring your kids!" etc etc. As if the only two options are "separate families" and "fuck the borders, let them all come right in."

I don't care if you think it's a deterrent - it's cruel and inhumane to both the parents and the children. It's flat-out WRONG.

And to use the Bible to try and justify it? That's the cherry on top of this shit sundae. Absolutely fucking disgusting.

America separated families during slavery, and separated Native American families. It's in our history, so yeah, it's kind of who we are, unfortunately. It was shameful then, and it's fucking shameful now.

 

[Pearl]

There is zero immediate risk of civl war.

You need desperation for civil war. We are not that society.

Well off people tend not to protest. That's why you see these huge one off protests that then go away, and why people aren't rioting in the streets on a daily basis.

We're comfortable as a society.


Now if we have another crash of the economy, worse than the late 2000s? 20-30 some odd years down the line if resources continue to dwindle and global warming begins to make actual impacts on the every day living of large swaths of the population? Then perhaps the risk would increase.

Right now? Come on.

It is true that when people have jobs, food on their table, they tend to get complacent and apathetic.

As for the economy going down again soon, some economic experts say it could happen starting in a year or two:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...es-why-economists-think-may-happen/686177002/

I'm just mad and confused about why there is so much apathy in this country. Granted, half don't care because they are fine with what is going on at the border. But the other half does. Now obviously, a good number don't care one way or the other.

Sigh...so frustrating.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It is true that when people have jobs, food on their table, they tend to get complacent and apathetic.

As for the economy going down again soon, some economic experts say it could happen starting in a year or two:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...es-why-economists-think-may-happen/686177002/

I'm just mad and confused about why there is so much apathy in this country. Granted, half don't care because they are fine with what is going on at the border. But the other half does. Now obviously, a good number don't care one way or the other.

Sigh...so frustrating.

The side that are desperate?

They voted for the guy in charge.

It's a lesson the Democrats need to learn, as anti-Trumpism will likely work in 2020... but the next guy might not be as much of a bumbling idiot.

And that's who I'm truly afraid of... not Trump. He's a dope. The guy who takes the Trump mantle next, 6-10-14 years down the road.

 

[Pearl]

The side that are desperate?

They voted for the guy in charge.

It's a lesson the Democrats need to learn, as anti-Trumpism will likely work in 2020... but the next guy might not be as much of a bumbling idiot.

And that's who I'm truly afraid of... not Trump. He's a dope. The guy who takes the Trump mantle next, 6-10-14 years down the road.

True, and I agree. The Democrats need to get their act together.

BTW, my immediate family voted for Trump (I'm the black sheep in my family) and they did it out of hatred for liberalism, not out of economic reasons. I also am an adjunct professor, and in 2016, I was teaching in an area (Staten Island, NY to be precise) that was/is heavily pro-Trump. And most people there are economically and financially well-off. With that in mind, all I could think that it is hatred for liberalism that put Trump in the White House. That is where I'm getting my perspective from.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

True, and I agree. The Democrats need to get their act together.

BTW, my immediate family voted for Trump (I'm the black sheep in my family) and they did it out of hatred for liberalism, not out of economic reasons. I also am an adjunct professor, and in 2016, I was teaching in an area (Staten Island, NY to be precise) that was/is heavily pro-Trump. And most people there are economically and financially well-off. With that in mind, all I could think that it is hatred for liberalism that put Trump in the White House. That is where I'm getting my perspective from.

Well yea, it's white suburbanites who put him over the top.

That doesn't change that the rural vote when overwhelmingly in his favor.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Trump on Kim: “He speaks and his people sit up for attention. I want my people to do the same”

Uh, yeah, how about not?

I also saw a clip of Trump talking about Kim and saying, "The people love him." Yes, because they'll be in trouble if they dare express any disapproval of him. Idiot.

Seriously, the way he keeps talking about Kim is super creepy and he needs to stop.

I called my reps yesterday, and also found a link to a church in TX who is providing shelter for immigrants seeking asylum - they have an Amazon wish list for kids' stuff, so I sent them a few things.

There's a rally in Seattle on Sunday and I am going.

I'm livid about this, and the arguments from the "other side" drive me crazy. "Then don't come here illegally!" "Then don't bring your kids!" etc etc. As if the only two options are "separate families" and "fuck the borders, let them all come right in."

I don't care if you think it's a deterrent - it's cruel and inhumane to both the parents and the children. It's flat-out WRONG.

And to use the Bible to try and justify it? That's the cherry on top of this shit sundae. Absolutely fucking disgusting.

America separated families during slavery, and separated Native American families. It's in our history, so yeah, it's kind of who we are, unfortunately. It was shameful then, and it's fucking shameful now.

I loved it on Stephen Colbert's show last night when he finished out the part of the Bible verse Sessions conveniently neglected in his quote. Further proof of how the religious right will pick and choose whatever parts of the Bible they want to justify treating people like shit.

(To say nothing of how we aren't a theocracy, so, y'know, trying to use religion to justify certain laws ain't exactly something that's gonna fly here.)

I also love Huckabee-Sanders trying to talk about morality and laws. Lady, if you really gave a shit about morality and laws, you wouldn't be excusing and defending and enabling Trump's crap, so shut the hell up.

Anywho, yeah. Will call my reps, though considering who my reps are, I doubt they'll be all that inclined to do anything. Keep in mind, my district is represented by Steve King .

 

[Bluer White]

We need civil disobedience in this country, even if it leads to forms of terrorism or even the long-awaited civil war.

I hear ya.

As for the economy going down again soon, some economic experts say it could happen starting in a year or two:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...es-why-economists-think-may-happen/686177002/

We can only hope, right?

 

[Gzusfrk]

I hear ya.



We can only hope, right?

I am a conservative, but I am not a Donald Trump fan. I agree with many of his policies, not all. The way he handles many situations is ridiculous in it's buffoonery. The meeting with Kim very well may be a good thing, that Kim blinked. But praising Kim is scary, complete lunacy.

Trump is a narcissist, he's out for Trump, but sometimes his policies work well, such as the strong economy right now.

But comments like this, encouraging terrorism?? Hoping for a recession?? Seriously??

THAT'S why Trump won. And if many of the leftists on this forum think this is the "way to Democratic victory", he will win again.

You guys need some new and better ideas. And no, it's not socialism, it's never worked and never will.

 

[DaveC]

oh look, it's gzusfrk's weekly drive-by "leftists" rant.

looking forward to seeing next week's strawman, until then!

 

[corianderstem]

I'm sorry, I thought it was using naughty words against the Trumps that was going to get him elected again.

Kidding, but only kind of. It's exhausting trying to keep up with what we're supposed to do, how we're supposed to act to get him out of there.

I read today that his re-election campaign is working with the group formerly known as Cambridge Analytica. So maybe he'll win again because it's all fucking bullshit and I need to go lie down now.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I am a conservative, but I am not a Donald Trump fan. I agree with many of his policies, not all. The way he handles many situations is ridiculous in it's buffoonery. The meeting with Kim very well may be a good thing, that Kim blinked. But praising Kim is scary, complete lunacy.

Trump is a narcissist, he's out for Trump, but sometimes his policies work well, such as the strong economy right now.

But comments like this, encouraging terrorism?? Hoping for a recession?? Seriously??

THAT'S why Trump won. And if many of the leftists on this forum think this is the "way to Democratic victory", he will win again.

You guys need some new and better ideas. And no, it's not socialism, it's never worked and never will.

Oh stop

No sane person encourages terrorism, and this is not a left policy nor why Trump won.

To say that the people who are against Trump (please stop calling us all leftists) think that terrorism and the hope for a recession is something the majority hopes for is simply wrong.


Trump won because middle class suburban whirtes broke for him.

I'll let you answer as to why that was.

I would also like you to share which of his policies you agree with, and how an economy that was clearly on the upswing prior to his talking office is somehow good because of him. If anything his trade policies are putting the entire global economy at risk, and will ultimately be his undoing within his own party when Wall Street turns on him.

Saying Trump is the reason the economy is continuing it's climb is just like saying Bush was the sole reason why the housing crisis sunk the economy. It's not true, it's much more complex than that, and the reasons behind it were set in motion years before.

 

[anitram]

Kidding, but only kind of. It's exhausting trying to keep up with what we're supposed to do, how we're supposed to act to get him out of there.

Honestly I think our best hope at this point is that he eats as much KFC as possible in the next 2 years. And fatty, cholesterol-laden steaks, super well done.

 

[Bluer White]

oh look, it's gzusfrk's weekly drive-by "leftists" rant.

looking forward to seeing next week's strawman, until then!

Extremely unreasonable outta this new guy.

Not good for the Free Your Mind discussion.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Extremely unreasonable outta this new guy.

Not good for the Free Your Mind discussion.

Thanks for contributing!

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I am a conservative, but I am not a Donald Trump fan. I agree with many of his policies, not all. The way he handles many situations is ridiculous in it's buffoonery. The meeting with Kim very well may be a good thing, that Kim blinked. But praising Kim is scary, complete lunacy.

I'm glad you agree on that. Can you tell the Republicans in Congress this so they can do something about his behavior and his comments? Can you rally other conservatives to speak up more and call Trump out on this stuff, too? They're clearly not listening to us "leftists", so maybe if more people from their own party actually spoke up, they might finally do something.

But comments like this, encouraging terrorism?? Hoping for a recession?? Seriously??

THAT'S why Trump won. And if many of the leftists on this forum think this is the "way to Democratic victory", he will win again.

No. This line needs to stop right now. Trump supporters have nobody to blame for their horribly misguided vote but themselves. They're the ones who listened to him spend seven years claiming Obama wasn't born here and shrugged it off as no big deal, and chose to vote for him anyway. They're the ones who refuse to acknowledge facts when they're staring them in the face. They're the ones who cheered Trump's racist/sexist/homophobic/xenophobic comments because he was saying all the things they secretly believed and wanted to say for years, and felt emboldened by him. They're the ones who refused to listen to those of us who tried to warn them they were voting for a con man who would screw them over.

They're responsible for putting Trump where he is. Not anyone else. And they need to own up to that and realize just how big a mistake they made. After all, aren't conservatives supposed to be all about taking personal responsibility for one's actions?

 

[BEAL]

There’s no going back from this.

Can we just divide the country already ?

 

[Danny Boy]

There’s no going back from this.

Can we just divide the country already ?

Sure, I'm fine with living in Washiforngon.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

On the note of divisions, what's everyone's thoughts on this idea to split California into three states? I know, obviously, that even if people support it in the November elections there'd still be a lot more to the process beyond that, but still... It'd be weird if it ever actually did come to fruition.

 

[Bluer White]

No. This line needs to stop right now.

No Line On The Horizon ?

 

[bono_212]

On the note of divisions, what's everyone's thoughts on this idea to split California into three states? I know, obviously, that even if people support it in the November elections there'd still be a lot more to the process beyond that, but still... It'd be weird if it ever actually did come to fruition.

It comes up all the time and from my understanding has no real traction.

 

[bono_212]

No Line On The Horizon ?

I was hopeful in the beginning you'd be someone to have interesting discourse with. You seemed to actually want to talk. Been really disappointing the last year and a half to see how just another snark machine with nothing to add.

 

[BoMac]

To me, a long term solution to the issue of illegal immigration, while not easy, is to do as much as possible to help lift other countries out of the endless cycle of violence and poverty.

These people are desperate and fleeing a hopeless situation, seeking a better life for them and their families.

I mean, surely as human beings we can understand that. It's easy to say "well, they shouldn't come here illegally", but if the situation were reversed, I don't know anyone who wouldn't do whatever possible to give their kids a brighter future. But this requires empathy and compassion, something that is hard to come by for many these days.

The point is, I've always felt that the concept of "home" is powerful for humans. Many are attached to their homeland, and they wouldn't leave unless the circumstances dictated it. So let's give people hope and a reason not to leave their home.

 

[BVS]

I am a conservative, but I am not a Donald Trump fan. I agree with many of his policies, not all. The way he handles many situations is ridiculous in it's buffoonery. The meeting with Kim very well may be a good thing, that Kim blinked. But praising Kim is scary, complete lunacy.



Trump is a narcissist, he's out for Trump, but sometimes his policies work well, such as the strong economy right now.



But comments like this, encouraging terrorism?? Hoping for a recession?? Seriously??



THAT'S why Trump won. And if many of the leftists on this forum think this is the "way to Democratic victory", he will win again.



You guys need some new and better ideas. And no, it's not socialism, it's never worked and never will.

No. One of the reasons Trump won was the right wing propaganda machine has convinced single media source voters that everyone who is not like them is an anti-American socialist that promotes terrorism and destroy capitalism. You’re a prime example, those have been your talking points since day one, they all come directly from the same playbook.

I do agree with you on one thing, the Dems need better ideas and a better message other than anti-trump.

 

[Pearl]

I am a conservative, but I am not a Donald Trump fan. I agree with many of his policies, not all. The way he handles many situations is ridiculous in it's buffoonery. The meeting with Kim very well may be a good thing, that Kim blinked. But praising Kim is scary, complete lunacy.

Trump is a narcissist, he's out for Trump, but sometimes his policies work well, such as the strong economy right now.

But comments like this, encouraging terrorism?? Hoping for a recession?? Seriously??

THAT'S why Trump won. And if many of the leftists on this forum think this is the "way to Democratic victory", he will win again.

You guys need some new and better ideas. And no, it's not socialism, it's never worked and never will.

In no way was I encouraging terrorism. You seemed to have skimmed over what I posted and not put it into context. You seemed to have let your bias against leftist politics cloud your thinking here.

The reason why I mentioned that terrorism could happen if things got really tense in this country (more so than they already are) is because of what happened in Charlottesville. Sometimes I think what happened there is only the beginning.

As for hoping for a recession, again, in no way was I doing that. If you read the article that I linked, it said that economic experts are predicting that a recession is going to happen in a year or two. A lot of news outlets - CNBC, AP, and so on - have been reporting on such a possibility. I'm someone who struggled a great deal during the last recession so I am watching the economy with a wary eye. So I am definitely not someone who wants another recession, even though the pendulum always swings in both directions because that's the way things are.

BTW, I'm not a socialist but I am curious as to why you are so against it. The Scandinavian countries are socialist to some degree, and they have good economies and happy people. Granted, I have only skimmed over this subject but I am always curious about why conservatives fear/hate the very idea of socialism, and say it will never work when it appears to be working elsewhere.

 

[BEAL]

Has anyone seen the documentary Meeting The Enemy?

It’s excellent and does give some hope for humanity.

We have to find a way to talk to each other, even if we find the other side repulsive or vice versa.

 

[DaveC]

BTW, I'm not a socialist but I am curious as to why you are so against it. The Scandinavian countries are socialist to some degree, and they have good economies and happy people. Granted, I have only skimmed over this subject but I am always curious about why conservatives fear/hate the very idea of socialism, and say it will never work when it appears to be working elsewhere.

they've been fed the notion that socialism always equals castro and stalin, there's no other forms of socialism than brutal totalitarianism where the state just takes everything you own and that it inevitably leads to murderous communist dictatorships. and also sweden is apparently now a hell hole where brown muslim immigrants are constantly gang raping all the white swedish women so look, socialism doesn't work and never will.

it's as stupid and wrong as claiming that the american system is the only form of democracy that exists in the world but it's what a lot of americans have been told their entire lives.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

There’s no going back from this.

Can we just divide the country already ?

I'd be okay with this.

 

[Bluer White]

I was hopeful in the beginning you'd be someone to have interesting discourse with. You seemed to actually want to talk. Been really disappointing the last year and a half to see how just another snark machine with nothing to add.

Sincerely 212, the beginning of what?

I've posted very, very infrequently going back at least two years. Stopped during the heat (hate?) of the presidential campaigns, and all that. But I've read it all here in the meantime.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

It comes up all the time and from my understanding has no real traction.

I didn't think it really did, yeah, but I was kinda curious if that had changed to some degree, since the idea seemed to get some votes in recent primaries in that state.

Would make for quite an interesting setup, though, if the day ever came where California was split into multiple states and Puerto Rico became a state and D.C. got proper representation .

To me, a long term solution to the issue of illegal immigration, while not easy, is to do as much as possible to help lift other countries out of the endless cycle of violence and poverty.

These people are desperate and fleeing a hopeless situation, seeking a better life for them and their families.

I mean, surely as human beings we can understand that. It's easy to say "well, they shouldn't come here illegally", but if the situation were reversed, I don't know anyone who wouldn't do whatever possible to give their kids a brighter future. But this requires empathy and compassion, something that is hard to come by for many these days.

The point is, I've always felt that the concept of "home" is powerful for humans. Many are attached to their homeland, and they wouldn't leave unless the circumstances dictated it. So let's give people hope and a reason not to leave their home.

Fully agreed on every single word of this .

No Line On The Horizon ?

For my part, I did chuckle a bit at this .

But yeah, Bluer White, feel free to jump into conversations where possible here if you want. I know things have, obviously, gotten pretty heated here in recent times, but if there's something you want to discuss, I'll be glad to do so with you.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

In other cases, we see no communication that the parent knows that their child is to be taken away. Instead, the officers say, “I’m going to take your child to get bathed.” That’s one we see again and again. “Your child needs to come with me for a bath.” The child goes off, and in a half an hour, twenty minutes, the parent inquires, “Where is my five-year-old?” “Where’s my seven-year-old?” “This is a long bath.” And they say, “You won’t be seeing your child again.” Sometimes mothers—I was talking to one mother, and she said, “Don’t take my child away,” and the child started screaming and vomiting and crying hysterically, and she asked the officers, “Can I at least have five minutes to console her?” They said no. In another case, the father said, “Can I comfort my child? Can I hold him for a few minutes?” The officer said, “You must let them go, and if you don’t let them go, I will write you up for an altercation, which will mean that you are the one that had the additional charges charged against you.” So, threats.

Sorry, Bono. You're wrong. This IS America.