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Old 05-01-2018, 08:32 AM   #181
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Sorry, this isn't one of your Occupy protests or Resistance Cell meetings. Call and Response/Mic Check/Group Agreement doesn't work here.


It doesn’t? I thought we were all a bunch of zealots who scream “racist” at anything we don’t understand, and I’m the most bigoted person on the forum.
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:40 AM   #182
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Mueller has the answer to probably all of those questions.

So either Trump tells the truth (and collusion appears to be likely), or he lies and commits a felony.

Of course he’ll never sit down to answer those questions.

And Kelly must be on the way out with all the articles of him calling Trump and idiot
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Old 05-01-2018, 08:43 AM   #183
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Mueller has the answer to probably all of those questions.

So either Trump tells the truth (and collusion appears to be likely), or he lies and commits a felony.

Of course he’ll never sit down to answer those questions.

And Kelly must be on the way out with all the articles of him calling Trump and idiot
He won't sit down, and that's probably why Giulian... errr... I mean "somebody close to the Trump legal team" leaked these questions, to taint the interview.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:06 AM   #184
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I just read that whole transcript twice.

Some parts were a bit mean, but what was sexist or over the line about it? Isn't this always a roast??
The transcript really doesn't tell the whole story...like the look of humiliation and hurt on Sanders face when they cut to her. This will delight some, I'm sure. But I didn't take any pleasure from seeing it.

The response to those critical of Wolf's performance basically falls into three categories...it wasn't that bad, it was bad but Trump's people deserved it because they're hateful fascists, racists, etc., and "stop whining, Wolf criticised CNN also." None of these excuses, IMO, are valid.

And with regards to the event being a "roast"...not really. There's some defacto roasting going on, that's inevitable. But that's not what it's intended to be. And in any event, roasts, despite sometimes being very harsh, and generally done by friends and colleagues of the roastee, and come from a basically good place, with the usual admonitions at the end about how the roastee is really a good person, etc.

None of that was in Wolf's performance. She was basically a partisan snipe hurling insults. Though it will no doubt do her career wonders. It also sort of played into Trump's hands and made Sanders look sympathetic to the point where the DC Press Corps was defending her and the WHCA was expressing regret.

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And for God's sake can we please retire the strawman trope about what we all would have done had this happened to to President Hillary (pro tip: she'll never be President) and the implication that women scream about sexism anytime a woman is criticized. It's so old and so stupid.
It's more "woke" men who ride in on their white horse and do that anyway.

But, now that I think about it, I can't recall a single major criticism of HRC during the campaign that wasn't attributed at least somewhat to sexism. I'm sure there might have been, I just can't think of it. And accusing Obama's critics of racism was frankly a pretty consistent refrain from some quarters as well.

So given that it's the fall back position on a certain segment of the left to habitually accuse Republicans of racism and sexism as a mater of course, and given that even HRC attributes her loss at least partially to sexism, I think Out of Control's point is a valid one.

Of course, it's also valid to say that there are plenty of racists and sexists on the right, and that some of the criticism of HRC was rooted in sexism, and racism in Obama's case.

Finally, as an aside, I'll add that IMO men on the left are just as likely to be sexist or racist as men on the right. It's just manifests itself in different ways.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:11 AM   #185
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The transcript really doesn't tell the whole story...like the look of humiliation and hurt on Sanders face when they cut to her. This will delight some, I'm sure. But I didn't take any pleasure from seeing it.

The response to those critical of Wolf's performance basically falls into three categories...it wasn't that bad, it was bad but Trump's people deserved it because they're hateful fascists, racists, etc., and "stop whining, Wolf criticised CNN also." None of these excuses, IMO, are valid.

The fact that you present these as “excuses” supposes there is something to be excused in that a wrong was committed.

If somebody does not find her roast offensive or “that bad” for a comedian, then they may have a different sense of humour than you. Just because you’ve concluded from your holy fence that it was wrong doesn’t make it so.
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:24 AM   #186
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for fuck's sakes.

why are we all of a sudden soooo worried about poor sarah sanders' hurt feelings cause someone called her a liar when her boss regularly degrades women and minorities and openly mocks disabled people at his political rallies?

when the fuck do those people get to start having their feelings this seriously taken into consideration?
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Old 05-01-2018, 10:29 AM   #187
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for fuck's sakes.

why are we all of a sudden soooo worried about poor sarah sanders' hurt feelings cause someone called her a liar when her boss regularly degrades women and minorities and openly mocks disabled people at his political rallies?

when the fuck do those people get to start having their feelings this seriously taken into consideration?
Right after you present Nick with an argument that they don't deserve to have their feelings taken into consideration.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:07 AM   #188
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The fact that you present these as “excuses” supposes there is something to be excused in that a wrong was committed.

If somebody does not find her roast offensive or “that bad” for a comedian, then they may have a different sense of humour than you. Just because you’ve concluded from your holy fence that it was wrong doesn’t make it so.
Yes, yes, of course. And I'm sure that the people whose "sense of humour" found this to be so hilarious would have been similarly cackling had the target been HRC...or any other woman on "their" side.

I think the fact that the WHCA is distancing itself from this mess and expressing their regret speaks for itself.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:24 AM   #189
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Yes, yes, of course. And I'm sure that the people whose "sense of humour" found this to be so hilarious would have been similarly cackling had the target been HRC...or any other woman on "their" side.



I think the fact that the WHCA is distancing itself from this mess and expressing their regret speaks for itself.



Which they did after Imus in 1996.

And here we are again.

I’m sure further opportunities for self-congratulation and sanctimony will abound in the coming months.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:40 AM   #190
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Your rights end where your feelings begin.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:53 PM   #191
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for fuck's sakes.

why are we all of a sudden soooo worried about poor sarah sanders' hurt feelings cause someone called her a liar when her boss regularly degrades women and minorities and openly mocks disabled people at his political rallies?


I don’t even think we have to look past her to Trump. The woman herself is a shameless liar who knows full well what she is doing. Nobody is forcing her into this job, nobody is forcing her to repeat lies or stand there without qualms day after day. In fact she stepped into this role proudly. But if she is called a liar to her face though and looks sad about it that’s a step too far. The concern trolling is amazing. Maybe concentrate on how to get poor Sarah to evaluate her own life choices.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:00 PM   #192
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Your rights end where your feelings begin.
This is nonsensical. No one is talking about anyone's "right" to say anything.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:03 PM   #193
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I mean the comedy wasn’t funny. I’ll give it that. They should be ashamed of the poor style and obvious tribalism.

Reason I say this is because an unbiased source has so, so much to work with in terms of comedy. This administration has been a laughing stock. She (Michelle Wolf) dropped the ball, big time.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:03 PM   #194
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The woman herself is a shameless liar who knows full well what she is doing. Nobody is forcing her into this job, nobody is forcing her to repeat lies or stand there without qualms day after day. In fact she stepped into this role proudly.
Sounds a lot like HRC to me. But if she were the subject of Wolf's "humour" the boycotts of Netflix would have already begun.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:05 PM   #195
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Sounds a lot like HRC to me. But if she were the subject of Wolf's "humour" the boycotts of Netflix would have already begun.


Soooo funny OMG with the Hillary again. And projecting what we’d be doing as if we were Hillary fangirls. Totally unforeseen.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:22 PM   #196
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seriously trying to paint us all as hypocrites based on a completely imaginary reaction to a situation that did not and will not ever happen. this is some incredibly dishonest and intellectually lazy horseshit, even for nick.
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Old 05-01-2018, 01:36 PM   #197
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Believe it or not, DaveC, my discussion of this topic isn't necessarily about the 5 or so people who read this thread. There is a world out there, and I'm assuming that most of us are speaking rhetorically. When I'm directing something your way, trust me, you'll know it.

I do agree, however, that it would not "ever happen" to HRC.
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Old 05-01-2018, 02:07 PM   #198
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When I'm directing something your way, trust me, you'll know it.


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I do agree, however, that it would not "ever happen" to HRC.
right, and not because she's some untouchable goddess of the left that you seem to like pretending that she is, it's because she is not and never will be the president. your post has as little value as if you were boldly asserting what the reaction would be if someone made a comedy roast of US president louis xiv.
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Old 05-01-2018, 02:17 PM   #199
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back to the questions.


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The only surprise was a question about outreach by the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, to Russia for election assistance. Previous reports had indicated offers of assistance going only in the other direction. This could be a significant new reveal (it’s unlikely Mueller would ask a question based on a false premise) or it could just be a scrivener’s error, in light of the way these questions were obtained by the Times. Mueller’s team reportedly read the questions over the telephone to members of Trump’s legal team, who wrote them down. As anyone who has ever played the old “Telephone” game knows, details are sometimes lost in the translation, and so it may be that this development is nothing new.

And so the “what” regarding these questions is mostly unsurprising. The surprise is the “who” and the “why.”

First, who might have leaked these questions? Mueller himself or someone on his team could have done so, but Mueller is known for his tight-lipped approach to investigations. Not only is it against his nature to leak these questions, it is also against his interest. Sharing these questions with the media telegraphs areas of inquiry to all other witnesses. The president may get the extraordinary courtesy of advance notice of the questions to induce him to come to the table, but no other witness will likely receive this unusual benefit. Publishing these questions only stands to compromise Mueller’s investigation, and so it seems unlikely that the leak came from his camp.

That leaves Trump’s team with Rudy Giuliani new to the team. These questions were not leaked when they were first communicated to Trump’s team in March, but only now, after Giuliani has come on board.

Why might Trump’s legal team want to leak these questions? The answer may lie in Trump’s morning tweets. Trump criticized the leak, and then stated: “No questions on Collusion. Oh, I see...you have a made up, phony crime, Collusion, that never existed, and an investigation begun with illegally leaked classified information. Nice!” A second tweet said, “It would seem very hard to obstruct justice for a crime that never happened! Witch Hunt!”

He seems to be making the public case that the investigation is now all about obstruction of justice, and not about coordination with Russia to interfere with the election. Even this premise is false, in light of the fact that several questions relate to contacts with Russians. Nonetheless, more than half of the questions appear to relate to obstruction of justice. Trump seems to be arguing that this focus on obstruction of justice exposes the investigation as an unfounded, politically motivated scandal.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/if-tea...kfire?ref=home
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Old 05-01-2018, 02:19 PM   #200
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For fucks sake Hillary Clinton was one of the most ridiculed and bashed public figures on the face of the planet.

The current POTUS regularly led chants suggesting she should be in prison at campaign rallies.

Pick someone else, honest broker.
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