US Politics VI
- Thread starter DaveC
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
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Meanwhile there's reports of another explosion in Austin.
Or to quote Nick's future post, no there aren't.
Or to quote Nick's future post, no there aren't.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
It’s both shocking and yet we all somehow knew it was happening.
Yes, big news over here.
And now you're on the ignore list. Say hi to BVS.
No need to reply.
You're gonna need a bigger boat.
And...
...maybe if you did a little digging you'd know that already.
Enjoy your meal.
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Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
I meant to say this in my post earlier, but Nick, what is your theory is as to why some on the left condemn Christians and defend Muslims. No snark or anything meant here, I'm genuinely curious.
On a different note, hoping those in Austin are staying safe.
On a different note, hoping those in Austin are staying safe.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
My post was meant to be critical of the NRA and, by extension, the GOP (and Russia) and the gun owners who believe the “good guy with a gun” narrative where they will all be super brave like Donald Trump and charge into a building to save the dozens of children being sliced to ribbons by a white male aged 18-25 who legally purchased an AR-15.
I realize that’s a separate issue from this bomber. For anyone in Texas who is feeling what must be terrible dread right now, I am sorry.
I realize that’s a separate issue from this bomber. For anyone in Texas who is feeling what must be terrible dread right now, I am sorry.
We're really going to need to have a come to jebus moment on data collection... for the most part what CA and the Trump campaign did is no different in practice from what marketing departments around the world do on a daily basis, or what the Obama campaign did - their message is just a wee bit different.
All this data collection that drives so much of our modern world can be used for real evil when weaponized.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
My understanding, as of right now, is that there are differences in consent between what Obama scraped from Facebook and what CA has been doing.
I also don’t think that Obama hired anyone who offered to frame opponents with Ukrainian prostitutes.
But I’m still learning about all this.
Well yes, and that's the weaponization of which I'm speaking.
Generally speaking most people have no idea exactly what can be done with the data that's even publicly available, let alone gotten through nefarious means.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Well I think you touched on some of it in your earlier post actually, which I thought was pretty cogent. I think it's a combination of the perception of Muslims as an oppressed minority, and the fact that so many Christians on the far right are Islamaphobic (the enemy of my enemy is my friend). But no matter what the reasons, some of it is a little difficult to reconcile with the notion that progressives are supposed to be in common cause with some the very people (women, GLBT’s) that so much (no, not all) of the Muslim world actively oppresses.
And this obviously isn't everyone on the left. Bill Maher, for example, has it about right. And it goes without saying that many on the right are irrationally xenophobic about Muslims (including, surprisingly, those Muslims in their own country).
Maher is actually my favourite of the political commentators, and he pretty much sums it up for me here (some viewers may be offended)...
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I think that Bill Maher is right insofar as he puts some blame on Western liberals for essentially forgetting women in the Muslim world. The oppression by the regimes there (you can argue how much of it is due to religion vs culture vs plain old autocracy) is real and it is stunning to me that we have largely abandoned our sisters in many of the countries of the Middle East when we sit to discuss women’s rights and progress generally.
He is also sexist and as far as I’m aware is still peddling the dangerous, unscientific vaccine nonsense.
He is also sexist and as far as I’m aware is still peddling the dangerous, unscientific vaccine nonsense.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
The "women's rights in the Middle East" versus Muslims rights in the United States argument is just off, though.
Again, defense of Muslim people has fuck all to do with their religion or what their views are.
I think Islam is stupid and oppressive and yadayadayada. My defense of a Muslim person in the United States has to do with their freedom of choice to be or not to be Muslim. If a Muslim woman wants to wear a hijab and wants to exist in that religious culture (the same way a Christian conservative woman shan't show her knees or whatever), fine. Do it. I think it's stupid, but you're free here. To do as you please. As long as what you please doesn't make someone else have to comply by your rules.
If I were an atheist male in Egypt, I would denounce the Muslim majority for oppressing women and the Christian minority. Of fucking course. Because that has nothing to do with their religion. It has to do with oppression.
I feel no need to defend Christianity in the United States. They're not oppressed. They're literally the freest people in the country. They face limited to no judgement and are deep-rooted in our political system to in turn benefit and judge others.
Combating domestic oppression != supporting international socio-religious oppression
Again, defense of Muslim people has fuck all to do with their religion or what their views are.
I think Islam is stupid and oppressive and yadayadayada. My defense of a Muslim person in the United States has to do with their freedom of choice to be or not to be Muslim. If a Muslim woman wants to wear a hijab and wants to exist in that religious culture (the same way a Christian conservative woman shan't show her knees or whatever), fine. Do it. I think it's stupid, but you're free here. To do as you please. As long as what you please doesn't make someone else have to comply by your rules.
If I were an atheist male in Egypt, I would denounce the Muslim majority for oppressing women and the Christian minority. Of fucking course. Because that has nothing to do with their religion. It has to do with oppression.
I feel no need to defend Christianity in the United States. They're not oppressed. They're literally the freest people in the country. They face limited to no judgement and are deep-rooted in our political system to in turn benefit and judge others.
Combating domestic oppression != supporting international socio-religious oppression
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I admire your courage, given that such behaviour could land you in prison (or worse). I'm not sure I would be so brave.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Have you now proceeded to tell me, an Egyptian Christian at birth, what religion in Egypt is like?
Also, relevance to my point?
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
I'm saying that speaking out in the way you suggested, could (and probably would) land you in prison in Egypt these days, depending on how vocal you were and how much your criticism was aimed at the government (criticism of which is strictly illegal). And you couldn't speak out against the treatment of women & Christians without speaking out against the government.
Read Human Rights Watch's report on Egypt. It's not pretty.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
And once again, you're detracting from the point and interpreting things the way you wish... for what?
My "speaking out" comment was a hypothetical virtual world equivalent to "if the roles were reversed." Because you, for some stupid reason, seem to think there's some prejudice against Christian people here, with a simultaneous approval of anti-progressive Muslim behavior in foreign lands.
I don't need to read a human rights report on Egypt. I'm familiar enough with my own peoples' land.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Good. Then you know, if you were an "atheist male in Egypt", and spoke out against the treatment of women and Christians, you'd most likely be in jail.
That was my only point. And of course that you're free to criticise whoever you wish in America, including Christians, using whatever language you wish, without fear of prison.
Mate, I don't get it. If you say something I think is wrong, or rubbish, I'll say so. But it's not personal for me. Just as if you disagree with something I say, and think I'm flat out wrong, by all means speak up and show me how I'm off course. I promise I won't take it personally if you don't make it personal. I don't get annoyed or hurt by political debates. My saying you're wrong, or you saying I'm wrong, or saying "what you wrote is rubbish", doesn't mean anything, unless we start throwing personal insults.
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McCabe investigated Sessions
Danny Boy
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Dude, you don't know anything about Egypt. Stop pretending like you do. That's total bullshit, you would not "most likely be in jail."
Horse shit it's not personal. You respond with a snide tone to people you recognize the name of at an exceptionally higher rate. You seek to contradict people. It is personal. And it's insulting when you aim to portray peoples views as weak so as to make yours seem strong, when in fact those views your projecting on others aren't their views. Like right now, you're attempting to relate my philosophy of anti-oppression to this imaginative discussion we aren't even having. Enlighten me: what point have I made that you equate to "rubbish"?
Careful... he might put you on ignore for saying shit.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
unstoppable force meets immovable object
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Source: Human Rights Watch (U2 likes these guys, and I used to work for them)
Amnesty International has come to the same conclusion. Also look at what Freedom House has to say. There's only about million reports of stuff like this.
Freedom of expression, and any kind of meaningful dissent, is all but dead in Egypt (unless you're a tourist, in a tourist area). Egypt now has one of the worst human rights records in the world. Yes, your hypothetical Egyptian atheist would certainly be arrested for speaking out against oppression of women and Christians.
Someone thinks all's fine in Egypt, however...
Yeah, yeah. I know. These groups don't know anything about Egypt either.
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LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
First: Deflect your criticisms by avoiding responding
Second: write response based upon nick66 interpretation of what "speaking out" is
Have you ever been to Egypt? Do you think I'm here defending Egypt? Based upon your response, and upon your prior posts, you seem fixated on the idea that liberal folks defend the wrongdoings of foreign cultures and nations. Just my take though, I won't say that's how you actually feel.
Anywho, you brought up LGBT issues in Egypt. Which aren't the same as religion and gender. You're attempting to explain not only my heritage and fatherland to me, but now you're attempting to explain how sexuality in said fatherland works. Do you think you know how that goes better than I do? I gay first generation descendant from Egypt? Nobody cares that you know how to google things, dude.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
Quote me where I said it's all fine ij Egypt. You can't.
And then tell me that this tone in your shitty posts is not both snide and personal. Go ahead, address it. Tell people exactly what you mean by that last quoted item.
Both of you, drop it and move on.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
No, make him respond to it.
His nonsense is the epitome of trolling without explicitly doing so.
I'm sick and tired of it being acceptable that he gets free reign to fly under the radar and portray people the way he does.
His nonsense is the epitome of trolling without explicitly doing so.
I'm sick and tired of it being acceptable that he gets free reign to fly under the radar and portray people the way he does.
OP
OP
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
no intent to fuel any argument here but i think LN7 has made some very valid points here that nick should respond to. contradicting him on his own heritage with a bunch of internet links is some real bullshit.
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