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Old 02-18-2018, 12:34 AM   #281
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I love it! Maybe I am a leftist after all!
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:41 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Gzusfrk View Post
I'm not all over the place, just trying to chase Headaches and others rabbit trails. The leftists here got upset because I said , based on a post by Irvine, that the left have a difficult time not only admitting when they're wrong, but even entertaining the possibility that they may be wrong, or have to apologize for false assumptions. That's all I said before the red herrings started.



As far as this being "my forte ", well I have my views, and I study the political and historical landscape very thoroughly. I may be wrong sometimes and when I am, I'll certainly admit it.



However, since FYM is an admitted, and proud echo chamber for the left, I can see how you could think that this is not "my forte. "


Admitted and proud echo chamber of the left? Okaaaaay

The fact that you’re throwing Headache in as a “leftist” is hilarious.

No, you said it was a ‘fact’ that the left can’t admit when they’re wrong. That is how a child argues a point, and it’s a fucking laugh riot given the current state of your party.

More facts, less generalization bs, otherwise you’re just an echo of Hannity.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:32 AM   #283
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Ok fine. This leftist begrudgingly admits that voting for Romney in 2008 was a mistake, although I still think he woulda done okay.

It was his socialist economic policies that attracted me to him. I couldn't help it once I got inside the Mittens Echo Chamber.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:40 AM   #284
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The Democratic Party loves the free market, which is a right wing stance.

The Democratic Party loves war, which is a right wing stance.

The Democratic Party doesn't know how it feels about immigration. It's somewhere in the middle. It's certainly willing to give concessions. It's not a leftist stance on immigration.

There is nothing socialist about the Democratic Party. Nothing at all.
Agree with this, though I'd caution throwing any indications that 'open' immigration policies correlate with the left. Historically, and if you look today at 'left' countries ie Scandanavia, NZ, immigration is a huge topic and often treated harsher than it is in the US.

But yeah, I'm with Philsfan on this one
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:45 AM   #285
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Gsusfrk, my feeling is it's mostly only fundamentalist religious folk who consider gay marriage to contentious.
It was brought into law in my country under a centre-right government. Same in Australia I believe?
Democrats really do seem to be a massive distance from 'left'.
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:15 AM   #286
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Ok fine. This leftist begrudgingly admits that voting for Romney in 2008 was a mistake, although I still think he woulda done okay.

You voted for Romney in 2008? You were the only one.

Or did you not mean 2008 literally? Maybe 2008 is defined as any year between 2006 and 2012?
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Old 02-18-2018, 04:57 AM   #287
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You voted for Romney in 2008? You were the only one.

Or did you not mean 2008 literally? Maybe 2008 is defined as any year between 2006 and 2012?
We'll see. If he's not willing to admit being wrong he's a leftist. If he does admit then there's still hope.
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Old 02-18-2018, 05:01 AM   #288
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Well if he voted for Romney in 2008 it was a primary. Which means Headache IS a Republican! Or at least he was in 2008.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:23 AM   #289
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One can not be held responsible for typing the wrong dates at 1 am.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:37 AM   #290
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Mitt Romney looks like freaking Abraham Lincoln now, in light of current circumstances. Or as Diamond Dave (TM) would say, Baberaham Lincoln.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:48 AM   #291
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Trump is having himself a heck of a morning on Twitter haha.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:09 PM   #292
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Gates flips.

This puts pressure on Manafort to work with Mueller as Gates knows a lot of what Manafort knows. And just this weekend Manafort gets his with another banking/finance charge for additional pressure.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:34 PM   #293
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Why? So the Democrats will lose Missouri?
What fucking good is a Democrat who stands for nothing?
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:33 AM   #294
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What fucking good is a Democrat who stands for nothing?

Well to start, she’d be one more vote for a Democratic majority leader, and a Democratic majority, which would mean Democrats could control the floor debate. And have a majority in all the Senate committees. Could stop the most egregious Presidential nominees. And a Democratic majority could open and control investigations.

Anyone who tells you it doesn’t matter which party is in control is lying to you.

Even a conservative Democrat still goes a lot further if you want all those things than even the most liberal Republican.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:09 AM   #295
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Trump tweeting that the FBI ignored the tip about the FL killer because they were focused on Russia-only Trump could make himself a victim of a mass shooting when he wasn't even there. Words can't even convey what a flaming narcissist he is. Too busy being a perpetual victim to ever be a leader. And people fall for that. Sad!
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:56 AM   #296
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He was even more embarrassing than usual this weekend.

His comments about the FBI were just way over the line. And it's one thing to go after the FBI leadership over the Russia investigation, it's another to suggest the FBI is responsible for those deaths in Florida. That really IS taking a cheap shot at the whole organisation.

And he couldn't take the minor "victory" of none of his people being indicted on Friday and leave it alone, he had to make more conspiratorial, and untrue, unhinged comments about the Russia investigation....without ever talking about what Russia actually did.

Then, to top it all of, the goes after Oprah and practically dares her to run against him. Idiot. Given the story that it was Obama's mocking of Trump at the WH Correspondent's Dinner that prompted Trump to run, I'd think he's realising he's playing with fire going after one of the most popular women in America.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:22 AM   #297
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Well to start, she’d be one more vote for a Democratic majority leader, and a Democratic majority, which would mean Democrats could control the floor debate. And have a majority in all the Senate committees. Could stop the most egregious Presidential nominees. And a Democratic majority could open and control investigations.

Anyone who tells you it doesn’t matter which party is in control is lying to you.

Even a conservative Democrat still goes a lot further if you want all those things than even the most liberal Republican.


Exactly, this “they’re the same” bullshit has got to stop.

Learn when and how to pick your battles.
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:26 PM   #298
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I understand that there is a certain game to be played, but conceding to any entrenched Dem who isn't fighting for the base of the party (minority voters being a huge part of the future of the left) is not a good electoral strategy. Joe Manchin should be challenged in the primary. So should McCaskill. No, they're not running for a national audience and demographics matter. But these ideas need to start getting introduced and start getting support across the spectrum on the Democratic side. We can't run and hide from the right side of issues any longer in the name of playing the game.

It's not about proving a point. It's about building for the long term. Short sightedness has been a major problem on the Democratic side. It's why they embraced so greatly the expansion of the executive branch under Obama; they assumed they were going to concede the House and Senate but would hold the presidency and started building their strategies around that. The Democrats need to think differently, and it starts by not being afraid of the issues. It starts by having litmus tests on core concerns.

If McCaskill and Manchin win in their states' primaries? So be it. But let's not do what the DNC has done in the past and create every barrier for entry possible for legitimate challengers with ideas that younger people support. Let's have a real battle for ideas in the primary so that the voters get a chance to know what options are out there, both on the issues and in the candidates.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:10 PM   #299
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I understand that there is a certain game to be played, but conceding to any entrenched Dem who isn't fighting for the base of the party (minority voters being a huge part of the future of the left) is not a good electoral strategy.
Well, there are signs that only fighting for the base and not the general electorate (of the state) might not be a good strategy at all. The Republicans were shown that lesson with the Alabama election. And it might happen again in Tennessee (so it might be they haven't learned from it yet). Electoral-vote.com

And it might be good to focus a bit more on ideological purity. But that might be something for California or Massachusetts. Or when you have a 62-38 majority (or, say, 57-43 when you're a bit less ambitious). But not when control of the Senate is dependent on it and you absolutely need Missouri.
Plus, the only reason that McCaskill and Manchin voted for that amendment to get in a slightly better position in their own state was because they were allowed to as their vote didn't have a direct consequence. That amendment was not going to pass, so they got permission. They would not have voted for it if their vote was the 60th one.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:27 PM   #300
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The Democrats need to start thinking about getting votes from places other than the already existing voters, is my point.
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