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Old 02-16-2018, 03:34 PM   #261
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So yeah, now that I've had a chance to look over this indictment, I have to say that, at the moment, Trump's lawyers have to be reasonably happy. There's no allegation of wrongdoing by anyone in the Trump campaign, or any suggestion that any American knowingly colluded with the Russians. Nor does the indictment allege that the disinformation changed the outcome of the election (though obviously no one can rule that in or out, there's no way of knowing).

When you get right down to it, if you read the indictment itself this is more or less an indictment of (very successful) Russian disinformation trolls.

Of course, it doesn't touch on the other issues Mueller is investigating, like the Trump tower meeting where Trump associates went looking for dirt on HRC, or the DNC hacking. So there's still more to stay tuned on. It does undermine Trump's assertion that the Mueller investigation is a 'hoax', but he can still claim there's no evidence of illegal collusion (thus far).
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Old 02-16-2018, 03:59 PM   #262
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According to an article in the Des Moines Register, the indictment touches on Russians' attempt to discredit the results of my state's caucuses.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...ges/345940002/

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Russian operatives trying to sow discord and distrust during the 2016 presidential campaign bought social media advertisements alleging fraud in Iowa’s first-in-the-nation caucuses.

That’s one of the allegations in a blockbuster indictment made public today by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, who’s investigating Russian meddling in the election and possible collusion with President Donald Trump’s campaign.

The indictment alleges that an organized group of Russian operatives began promoting a range of allegations of voter fraud by the Democratic Party in the summer of 2016 as the general election race between Trump and Hillary Clinton was heating up.

Among those was an allegation about the caucuses, the first presidential contest of the 2016 nominating process, which Clinton won by a tiny margin over Democratic challenger Bernie Sanders.

“On or about August 4, 2016,” the indictment says, “Defendants and their co-conspirators began purchasing advertisements that promoted a post on the ORGANIZATION-controlled Facebook account 'Stop A.I.' The post alleged that 'Hillary Clinton has already committed voter fraud during the Democrat Iowa Caucus.'”
So that's interesting.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:41 PM   #263
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Then we need to disagree...based on every application of political science and the continuum

Wow...
So.......when the basic tenets of the Democratic Party 10-15 years ago were anti-illegal immigrants (Bill and Hillary, and Obama), and anti-gay marriage (Clintons), and now, miraculously, the Clintons, Obama, and the entire Democratic Party are lockstep in favor of both.......that's a pretty far swing left.

If you listen to JFK's speaches about patriotism, the Bill of Rights, economics, he almost sounds like a Republican.

Not too much socialistic principles being put front and center back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's like they are now.
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:53 PM   #264
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I wouldn't exactly consider supporting something like gay marriage a "far left" position in the first place.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:15 PM   #265
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So.......when the basic tenets of the Democratic Party 10-15 years ago were anti-illegal immigrants (Bill and Hillary, and Obama), and anti-gay marriage (Clintons), and now, miraculously, the Clintons, Obama, and the entire Democratic Party are lockstep in favor of both.......that's a pretty far swing left.

If you listen to JFK's speaches about patriotism, the Bill of Rights, economics, he almost sounds like a Republican.

Not too much socialistic principles being put front and center back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's like they are now.
And the Republican party ended slavery, and now they elected a blatant racist.

Looks like people can change!
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:24 PM   #266
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So.......when the basic tenets of the Democratic Party 10-15 years ago were anti-illegal immigrants (Bill and Hillary, and Obama), and anti-gay marriage (Clintons), and now, miraculously, the Clintons, Obama, and the entire Democratic Party are lockstep in favor of both.......that's a pretty far swing left.



If you listen to JFK's speaches about patriotism, the Bill of Rights, economics, he almost sounds like a Republican.



Not too much socialistic principles being put front and center back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's like they are now.


Well, I suggest looking into JFK's campaign that got him elected. I you think he sounded republican... well... maybe that's because things didn't go as he'd planned (and that got him elected).

Anyways, what's your point? Democrats were racist and bigoted back then. Republicans are racist and bigoted now. What does the party have to do with it? Who cares about them? Elect people who represent the right values.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:47 PM   #267
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So.......when the basic tenets of the Democratic Party 10-15 years ago were anti-illegal immigrants (Bill and Hillary, and Obama), and anti-gay marriage (Clintons), and now, miraculously, the Clintons, Obama, and the entire Democratic Party are lockstep in favor of both.......that's a pretty far swing left.



If you listen to JFK's speaches about patriotism, the Bill of Rights, economics, he almost sounds like a Republican.



Not too much socialistic principles being put front and center back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's like they are now.


So, if we stuck with slavery, women not voting, and trickle down we’d all be happy centrists? Brilliant!
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:22 PM   #268
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Back to Russia (Russia, Russia!)

New shift in the Trump strategy. From “no collusion” to “why didn’t Obama stop the Russians? It’s not our fault we unexpectedly won, we didn’t think we would either.”
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:24 PM   #269
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So.......when the basic tenets of the Democratic Party 10-15 years ago were anti-illegal immigrants (Bill and Hillary, and Obama), and anti-gay marriage (Clintons), and now, miraculously, the Clintons, Obama, and the entire Democratic Party are lockstep in favor of both.......that's a pretty far swing left.

If you listen to JFK's speaches about patriotism, the Bill of Rights, economics, he almost sounds like a Republican.

Not too much socialistic principles being put front and center back in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's like they are now.
The Democratic Party loves the free market, which is a right wing stance.

The Democratic Party loves war, which is a right wing stance.

The Democratic Party doesn't know how it feels about immigration. It's somewhere in the middle. It's certainly willing to give concessions. It's not a leftist stance on immigration.

There is nothing socialist about the Democratic Party. Nothing at all.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:54 PM   #270
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And the Republican party ended slavery, and now they elected a blatant racist.

Looks like people can change!
You realize how ridiculous and desperate this flimsy quote sounds.

Strawman 101. So you are comparing the entire Democratic Party "groupthink" blindly changing their views in 10 years, to slavery in 1865 and the election of Donald Trump in 2016.

And of course, if you're not a leftist, then you must love Donald Trump.

Stick to music, sir. You do better there.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:25 PM   #271
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Why? So the Democrats will lose Missouri?
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:31 PM   #272
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So yeah, now that I've had a chance to look over this indictment, I have to say that, at the moment, Trump's lawyers have to be reasonably happy. There's no allegation of wrongdoing by anyone in the Trump campaign, or any suggestion that any American knowingly colluded with the Russians. Nor does the indictment allege that the disinformation changed the outcome of the election (though obviously no one can rule that in or out, there's no way of knowing).

When you get right down to it, if you read the indictment itself this is more or less an indictment of (very successful) Russian disinformation trolls.

Of course, it doesn't touch on the other issues Mueller is investigating, like the Trump tower meeting where Trump associates went looking for dirt on HRC, or the DNC hacking. So there's still more to stay tuned on. It does undermine Trump's assertion that the Mueller investigation is a 'hoax', but he can still claim there's no evidence of illegal collusion (thus far).
I think the big message of the indictments is that there was Russian interference with the 2016 elections and the Mueller can (likely) prove it. This will make it more difficult for Trump to "fire" Mueller. Because he's going after the Russians, so ending his investigation would make it seem even more that Trump is in bed with Putin.
Mueller has just bought himself more time to continue his work.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:46 PM   #273
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You realize how ridiculous and desperate this flimsy quote sounds.



Strawman 101. So you are comparing the entire Democratic Party "groupthink" blindly changing their views in 10 years, to slavery in 1865 and the election of Donald Trump in 2016.



And of course, if you're not a leftist, then you must love Donald Trump.



Stick to music, sir. You do better there.


None of this makes sense, not one word.

I don’t think this is your forte my friend.

You’re honestly ALL OVER the place, what is the point you’re really trying to make?
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:07 PM   #274
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:08 PM   #275
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I think the big message of the indictments is that there was Russian interference with the 2016 elections and the Mueller can (likely) prove it. This will make it more difficult for Trump to "fire" Mueller. Because he's going after the Russians, so ending his investigation would make it seem even more that Trump is in bed with Putin.

Mueller has just bought himself more time to continue his work.


This

He’s setting Trump up. Trump won’t be able to fire Mueller as easily.

It’s glorious to watch the MAGAS celebrate when they have no clue what’s coming next.

I truly believe this will be the most treasonous action anyone has ever taken against the country.

While this is my opinion and may not come true or even close

Trump worked a deal with Russia in 2013. Gets deals on his hotels/development in Moscow and he runs for president. Eventually turns into dropping sanctions

Russia changed votes. Not proven but think it’ll come out

Jill Stein is implicated

Obstruction of justice against Trump
Money laundering against Trump
Conspiracy against USA against Trump


And the GOP still won’t impeach
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:04 AM   #276
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Why? So the Democrats will lose Missouri?


But a point will be made!
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Old 02-17-2018, 04:38 AM   #277
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The Democratic Party doesn't know how it feels about immigration. It's somewhere in the middle. It's certainly willing to give concessions. It's not a leftist stance on immigration.
What is the leftist stance on immigration?
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:04 PM   #278
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bros and fools, manipulated like tools.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gns/348051002/

betting Stein was on the Kremlin payroll, tho.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:08 PM   #279
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bros and fools, manipulated like tools.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...gns/348051002/

betting Stein was on the Kremlin payroll, tho.


wut
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:21 AM   #280
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None of this makes sense, not one word.

I don’t think this is your forte my friend.

You’re honestly ALL OVER the place, what is the point you’re really trying to make?
I'm not all over the place, just trying to chase Headaches and others rabbit trails. The leftists here got upset because I said , based on a post by Irvine, that the left have a difficult time not only admitting when they're wrong, but even entertaining the possibility that they may be wrong, or have to apologize for false assumptions. That's all I said before the red herrings started.

As far as this being "my forte ", well I have my views, and I study the political and historical landscape very thoroughly. I may be wrong sometimes and when I am, I'll certainly admit it.

However, since FYM is an admitted, and proud echo chamber for the left, I can see how you could think that this is not "my forte. "
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