US Politics V - now with 20% more echo chamber

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes! The best way to point out hypocrisy is being hypocritical! The best way to call out someone who mocks people’s health issues is to mock people’s health issues!

For my part, my comments are not so much a desire to point out hypocrisy as it is more a simple reminder that in order to get respect, you have to earn it and show it yourself. And they're also a reminder that whatever you put out in the world does come back to you.

I don't engage in those kinds of jokes. I have no desire to do so. I can find plenty of ways to call out Trump without going there. But the fact remains (and I know you know this and would agree) that Trump has not earned a single shred of respect during his entire time in office (and hell, before that). He hasn't shown a single shred of decency or kindness, and his actions, as well as those of his supporters, have had great negative consequence for our country.

So fair or unfair, hypocritical or not, it's not surprising to me that some people who are beyond fed up with Trump and his supporters' shit will respond in kind as a result.
 
I do agree that Trump isn't worthy of respect. His office deserves respect, but he certainly doesn't. He's obviously a loathsome human being, along with being a horrid President. In some cases, being a loathsome human being doesn't necessarily mean you'd be bad President. Or being a good human being doesn't mean you'd make for a good President. But in Trump's case, his bad character has informed his Presidency to a large degree and helped make him a bad President. No one else in that office has deserved to be impeached more.

Let's put in this way...if I normally wouldn't mock someone's weight, or appearance, or physical health (or take pleasure in their health issues), I'm certainly not going to start for a low life like Trump. So it's my low regard for the President that makes me even more committed to not stoop to his level.
 
Last edited:
I'm not even sure the office deserves respect right now. At least with past presidents, the office was something more than a reality tv show. I hope respect is restored, regardless of party holding it.

My fear is that this isn't the end. We'll see President Ted Nugent

FoxNews is in full mental mode right now. Not only is the Mueller investigation compromised, but the entire FBI! We may need to disband the entire organization since they are nothing more than the KGB now. These analysts know that comparing the FBI to the very country and organization that is claimed to have colluded with Trump isn't a good idea?

It's been pretty quiet since the Flynn flip, so I wonder with the panic at Fox that something else is coming soon? My best guess is either Junior or the Kush are the next indictments.
 
2020 isn't the test to see if this is just a blip on the radar.

Trump will lose and lose by a lot, if he's still in office. You can't win with numbers like these, and there will be fatigue like we've never seen. Add in turn out that will rival the first election of Obama by there left (if not surpass) and it's over. If he even gets to 2020, which is highly in doubt.

The test will come in 2022, 2024, 2026, 2028... Will the newly invigorated moderate and liberal electorate stay as motivated as they are now? It will it sink once again.
 
I'm not even sure the office deserves respect right now. At least with past presidents, the office was something more than a reality tv show. I hope respect is restored, regardless of party holding it.

My fear is that this isn't the end. We'll see President Ted Nugent

FoxNews is in full mental mode right now. Not only is the Mueller investigation compromised, but the entire FBI! We may need to disband the entire organization since they are nothing more than the KGB now. These analysts know that comparing the FBI to the very country and organization that is claimed to have colluded with Trump isn't a good idea?

It's been pretty quiet since the Flynn flip, so I wonder with the panic at Fox that something else is coming soon? My best guess is either Junior or the Kush are the next indictments.
Wait until Trump does something outrageous. That's his obvious tell that a big hand is about to be dealt
 
Yes! The best way to point out hypocrisy is being hypocritical! The best way to call out someone who mocks people’s health issues is to mock people’s health issues!
It's not hypocrisy to think bad things should happen to bad people and good things should happen to good people. There are not two equal sides in politics, at least not American politics.
 
Net neutrality is gone, so I'll throw a goodbye in here since my Internet could get throttled at any moment. They probably won't take kindly to a guy who follows a lot of socialists on social media.

By the way, Pai was put on the FCC by Obama. This is what happens when you give the other side something. Politics is a battle for who gets what. When you win, take everything you possibly can. The Republicans know this, the Democrats don't.
 
Last edited:
This is why so many people in my generation are sympathetic to socialism. Many of these things were known, but when you put all of these pieces together at once, it paints a scary picture. And it's hard to draw a conclusion other than "capitalism can't work."

Millennials Are Screwed - The Huffington Post

I've seen this, but frankly I'm not convinced most millennials even know what socialism really is (not saying that you're part of this group). Most have a shockingly limited understanding of even basic economics. And the economic views they do have are often weirdly contradictory.
 
Last edited:
The debt issues millennials face should be of high concern to everyone. I don't think that is necessarily an argument against capitalism, though: rather that some critical institutions, like higher education and healthcare, are operating right now as market failures and no one wants to identify or address them as such.
 
I so, however, find it hilarious when Trump supporters get offended by something like a stroke joke, considering they voted for the most despicable candidate in the history of presidential elections.

If you're referring to me Headache, I wrote in a name. McMuffin.
And internet chat comments haven't offended me for a long time. Cheers :beer::beer:
 
The debt issues millennials face should be of high concern to everyone. I don't think that is necessarily an argument against capitalism, though: rather that some critical institutions, like higher education and healthcare, are operating right now as market failures and no one wants to identify or address them as such.

I think the problem is a bit more structural than that.

Because millenials face the exact same issue in Canada where they have (1) free healthcare and (2) government subsidized public education at the university level - we essentially have all "state" universities, no Harvards, etc that are extraordinarily expensive.
 
I think the problem is a bit more structural than that.



Because millenials face the exact same issue in Canada where they have (1) free healthcare and (2) government subsidized public education at the university level - we essentially have all "state" universities, no Harvards, etc that are extraordinarily expensive.



I think you've lost me a bit here.

What does Harvard have anything to do with the cost of attendance?
 
I think you've lost me a bit here.

What does Harvard have anything to do with the cost of attendance?

What do you mean?

My point is that in Canada we do not have expensive, private academic institutions at the university level (that is sort of untrue, we have a handful but they are usually religious institutions and not competitive and unranked, so sort of "fringe" schools). American millenials complain about the cost of education - well it can run $30, 40K per year for tuition in private or out-of-state universities. Those costs DO NOT exist in Canada yet millenials tend to still have the same issues/complaints as their American counterparts.

It's more than cost of healthcare/education. The truth is the baby boomers have stacked things in their favour for a long time and have contributed to a totally unsustainable system on many levels
 
By way of comparison for undergraduate study

Harvard:
The total 2016-2017 cost of attending Harvard College without financial aid is $43,280 for tuition.

University of Toronto (#1 ranked school in Canada):
$6,400

And that's not even factoring in for the currency conversion...
 
What do you mean?



My point is that in Canada we do not have expensive, private academic institutions at the university level (that is sort of untrue, we have a handful but they are usually religious institutions and not competitive and unranked, so sort of "fringe" schools). American millenials complain about the cost of education - well it can run $30, 40K per year for tuition in private or out-of-state universities. Those costs DO NOT exist in Canada yet millenials tend to still have the same issues/complaints as their American counterparts.



It's more than cost of healthcare/education. The truth is the baby boomers have stacked things in their favour for a long time and have contributed to a totally unsustainable system on many levels



By way of comparison for undergraduate study

Harvard:
The total 2016-2017 cost of attending Harvard College without financial aid is $43,280 for tuition.

University of Toronto (#1 ranked school in Canada):
$6,400

And that's not even factoring in for the currency conversion...



The private/public divide has little to do with crippling student debt in that sense, though. There are plenty of top ranked public institutions that suffer the same issues. Look at the UC system in California. In Florida, our system is pretty solid, but it too is ballooning. When I started in 2010, tuition was ~$4000 with access for all state students to ~$1500-2500 of merit based subsidy. Now, its over $6000 with those subsidies being cut in half.

But with those private institutions like Harvard, there is typically an endowment that funds more students to a point where someone attending Harvard versus a UC is arguably entering the same type of financial burden.

The bottom line is that in those high cost areas with renowned institutions (state or private), the actual cost of attendance is pretty much the same (arbitrarily $40,000). One just sees cost controlling whereas the other self controls its costs through endowment.
 
The private/public divide has little to do with crippling student debt in that sense, though. There are plenty of top ranked public institutions that suffer the same issues. Look at the UC system in California. In Florida, our system is pretty solid, but it too is ballooning. When I started in 2010, tuition was ~$4000 with access for all state students to ~$1500-2500 of merit based subsidy. Now, its over $6000 with those subsidies being cut in half.

I see what you mean. Keep in mind we also have endowments and subsidies to even further the low-ish costs.

But again, in Canada, tuition cost (aside from professional programs like law and medicine which have skyrocketed) is not that much higher now than it was 18 years ago when I started my undergrad. I think my cost was about $5400 rather than $6400 and you can chalk up a lot of that just to inflation. Yet the student debt load of my generation 2 decades ago and the challenges faced by my generation appears to be radically different than people who are 18 today. Once again, that can't be explained by cost of education/healthcare in Canada, but deeper structural problems. Such as with every passing year, you almost need to stack more names after your letter for a job search so people are being educated for longer. The real estate bubble has been fed by baby boomers and it is impossible to find affordable housing in urban areas with lots of jobs. Young people can't even afford rent anymore. The public debt load has skyrocketed because the selfish baby boomer generation gave themselves all sorts of unsustainable perks such as defined benefit pension plans for which the taxpayers are on the hook and which have long been absent in the private sector except very few cases. And on and on.
 
Net Neutrality could turn out to be a political football that Republicans can’t handle. Besides just wanting to watch the world burn, their motivations are odd.

I’m seeing folks on both sides of the aisle furious. Now the Trumpkins won’t say a thing, it’s all above their heads, they don’t realize this just opened a floodgate to create the biggest swamp ever. But will this finally turn levelheaded Republicans against him?
 
I've seen this, but frankly I'm not convinced most millennials even know what socialism really is (not saying that you're part of this group). Most have a shockingly limited understanding of even basic economics. And the economic views they do have are often weirdly contradictory.
What exactly is contradictory? I'd be happy to have a more specific discussion.
The debt issues millennials face should be of high concern to everyone. I don't think that is necessarily an argument against capitalism, though: rather that some critical institutions, like higher education and healthcare, are operating right now as market failures and no one wants to identify or address them as such.
I'm not sure there is anyway for these institutions to exist fairly in a capitalist society. If anything, I think the current crises on all of these fronts are the inevitable result of capitalism.
I think the problem is a bit more structural than that.

Because millenials face the exact same issue in Canada where they have (1) free healthcare and (2) government subsidized public education at the university level - we essentially have all "state" universities, no Harvards, etc that are extraordinarily expensive.
I see what you mean. Keep in mind we also have endowments and subsidies to even further the low-ish costs.

But again, in Canada, tuition cost (aside from professional programs like law and medicine which have skyrocketed) is not that much higher now than it was 18 years ago when I started my undergrad. I think my cost was about $5400 rather than $6400 and you can chalk up a lot of that just to inflation. Yet the student debt load of my generation 2 decades ago and the challenges faced by my generation appears to be radically different than people who are 18 today. Once again, that can't be explained by cost of education/healthcare in Canada, but deeper structural problems. Such as with every passing year, you almost need to stack more names after your letter for a job search so people are being educated for longer. The real estate bubble has been fed by baby boomers and it is impossible to find affordable housing in urban areas with lots of jobs. Young people can't even afford rent anymore. The public debt load has skyrocketed because the selfish baby boomer generation gave themselves all sorts of unsustainable perks such as defined benefit pension plans for which the taxpayers are on the hook and which have long been absent in the private sector except very few cases. And on and on.
Capitalism has completely restructured the workforce. There are way less permanent jobs, there is way less union protection, there is way more temporary work that lacks benefits and stability and opportunities for experience in a specific industry. Employees are, on the whole, a liability rather than a resource when it comes to company bottom lines.

So you are right. The safety net of universal healthcare and reduced education costs are not going to get it done. It has to be way larger. It has to be a change of the whole economic system.
 
The public debt load has skyrocketed because the selfish baby boomer generation gave themselves all sorts of unsustainable perks such as defined benefit pension plans for which the taxpayers are on the hook and which have long been absent in the private sector except very few cases. And on and on.

This exact thing is a major problem in the US as well. Illinois is a case study. The pension obligations are unfathomable, yet no action can be taken because the state constitution has a clause saying the program can't be touched.
 
So lots of stories out about Paul Ryan getting out of politics. Fatigue listed as main reason.

Could it be he’s got some part of the Russia meddling and he’s getting out now before it looks worse for him?

I’m thinking Trump AND Pence will be removed so that means whoever is Speaker takes over.

And if Ryan doesn’t run for re election, and Dems some how pull off 2018 (unlikely) what a crazy turn of events.

But realistically I’d think GOP would want someone very clean and establishment to take Ryan’s spot
 
I think he's tired of having to dance a line as his party's decency dwindles and turns into the party of Trump. I wouldn't get so conspiratorial about it.
 
I’m just trying to make real life more interesting.

While i disagree with 99% of his policy ideas (leaving some room to agree), i don’t think he’d be a disaster as POTUS

Be a nerdy version of W.
 
So lots of stories out about Paul Ryan getting out of politics. Fatigue listed as main reason.

Could it be he’s got some part of the Russia meddling and he’s getting out now before it looks worse for him?

I’m thinking Trump AND Pence will be removed so that means whoever is Speaker takes over.

And if Ryan doesn’t run for re election, and Dems some how pull off 2018 (unlikely) what a crazy turn of events.

But realistically I’d think GOP would want someone very clean and establishment to take Ryan’s spot




Predictions now that the tax plan may fail due to Rubio, Collins, and others having problems.

I wonder if the Moore defeat is the turning point, and the GOP starts to turn on Trump.

Let the blood fly!
 
Hope it does fail.

There does seem to more chatter against the Trump/Bannon side of things.

Losing a seat in AL has to hurt
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom