US Politics V - now with 20% more echo chamber

[Moonlit_Angel]

Apparently all that is required to be POTUS is to give a speech.

No background in law
No background in government

While I think Oprah would be a better President than Trump, it would still be a disaster and a joke.

Let's not forget about the Rock. He could get the youth vote!

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I will say, though, that if Oprah honest to God did decide to run for president, and Trump didn't take that as an opportunity to just pack it in right then and there, that would be proof of just how big an idiot he really is.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III has raised the likelihood with President Trump’s legal team that his office will seek an interview with the president, triggering a discussion among his attorneys about how to avoid a sit-down encounter or set limits on such a session, according to two people familiar with the talks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...8d48830c54d_story.html?utm_term=.0fae66834d74

 

[Nick66]

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

I will say, though, that if Oprah honest to God did decide to run for president, and Trump didn't take that as an opportunity to just pack it in right then and there, that would be proof of just how big an idiot he really is.

I actually think Trump would beat Oprah pretty handily.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I actually think Trump would beat Oprah pretty handily.

I think anyone, save carefully groomed characterless democrat politicians like Tim Kaine/Cory Booker or any "safe bets," can defeat Donald Trump with relative ease.

So sad to say, Oprah would probably have it a lot easier than any politician in today's day and age.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

OpRock 2020

 

[Nick66]

I think anyone, save carefully groomed characterless democrat politicians like Tim Kaine/Cory Booker or any "safe bets," can defeat Donald Trump with relative ease.

So sad to say, Oprah would probably have it a lot easier than any politician in today's day and age.

No to all of the above.

Assuming he's not indicted, I think Trump has a decent chance of winning in 2020, and I certainly think he'd beat Oprah Winfrey.

The conventional wisdom you've expressed here is frankly the same conventional wisdom that said he didn't stand a chance against "the most qualified candidate in history". That's not a criticism...I'm no exception, I certainly didn't give Trump any real chance of winning (though I did predict he'd get the GOP nomination).

 

[corianderstem]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with so many people seriously thinking she should run.

 

[corianderstem]

Julian Assange doesn't need money... dude's probably rolling in bitcoin dough

lol I read that as "bitchin' dough." that works, too.

 

[Nick66]

I think social media has made politicians into celebrities, and the lines have been blurred to the average, low-info voter. So why not Oprah?

No matter that we know very little about her political views or whether her personal life could withstand scrutiny. Or that she's as utterly unqualified to sit in that office as the buffoon who currently occupies it (even if she is a decent person and he is not). She made a good speech at the Golden Globes, so of course she should be President.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

No to all of the above.

Assuming he's not indicted, I think Trump has a decent chance of winning in 2020, and I certainly think he'd beat Oprah Winfrey.

The conventional wisdom you've expressed here is frankly the same conventional wisdom that said he didn't stand a chance against "the most qualified candidate in history". That's not a criticism...I'm no exception, I certainly didn't give Trump any real chance of winning (though I did predict he'd get the GOP nomination).

You're failing to account for turnout.

Many Obama voters stayed home in 2016. You're crazy if they think they will again, and the number of votes he won by in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin wouldn't fill a college football stadium.

And he's less popular now than he was in 2016.

The Dems should fold if they fail in 2018 and 2020.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I think anyone, save carefully groomed characterless democrat politicians like Tim Kaine/Cory Booker or any "safe bets," can defeat Donald Trump with relative ease.

So sad to say, Oprah would probably have it a lot easier than any politician in today's day and age.

No to all of the above.

Ok.

Assuming he's not indicted, I think Trump has a decent chance of winning in 2020, and I certainly think he'd beat Oprah Winfrey.

The conventional wisdom you've expressed here is frankly the same conventional wisdom that said he didn't stand a chance against "the most qualified candidate in history". That's not a criticism...I'm no exception, I certainly didn't give Trump any real chance of winning (though I did predict he'd get the GOP nomination).

But that's not what I'm doing. My "conventional wisdom" wasn't that he had no chance. It's that Clinton and Trump were two of the most hated candidates we've ever seen. In a battle of who was hated more, Trump arguably won, but Clinton coming in a close second was ultimately her demise.

Trump would still be hated. Probably more so than before. Bannonism has been muddled up. Trump has been painted in all the scandal - like it or not - that Clinton has been. Regardless of what you believe and what you don't, that's what he's becoming.

Trump only stands a chance in a negative world. His best move was always to deny and deflect. With outsiders, he has absolutely no chance. With insiders, he can still win.

 

[BVS]

No to all of the above.

Assuming he's not indicted, I think Trump has a decent chance of winning in 2020, and I certainly think he'd beat Oprah Winfrey.

The conventional wisdom you've expressed here is frankly the same conventional wisdom that said he didn't stand a chance against "the most qualified candidate in history". That's not a criticism...I'm no exception, I certainly didn't give Trump any real chance of winning (though I did predict he'd get the GOP nomination).

The crazy pills are being passed around I see.

A woman who is hated, still won the pop vote by how much?

 

[Nick66]

Yeah, that's it. I'm crazy. But I'm a stable crazy.

I doubt Oprah could even get the Democratic nomination.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I can't imagine Oprah running. I feel like she's just a good sarcastic name to throw in to mock Trump.

But in hypotheticals, I imagine she would be very hard to touch. She would get the Sanders benefit. Hard to hate, even if not hard to dislike.

 

[corianderstem]

She inflicted Dr Oz/Dr Phil quackery and Jenny McCarthy's shitty opinions on us, which is a strike against her.

I have huge respect and admiration for Oprah (Oz/Phil bullshit aside), but have spent the bulk of my day arguing with people on Facebook about why I think it's a terrible idea that she run. I am frankly surprised how many of my FB friends were arguing for her running. (Not, like, a ton of friends, but more than one, which is still more than I expected.)

 

[PhilsFan]

The issue in 2016 was not that the Democrats failed to run a celebrity.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Well, most people just regurgitate what they hear. She's trending right now. How many people have actually put thought into her being president? To be honest, the very thought is celebrity + woman + black + liberal. Perfect modern day democratic candidate.

Sometimes, well, all the time, I fear we focus too much on superficial things. It's okay to elect an old white man if he supports the right values and has the right experience. Barack Obama was the first black president, and though a dark horse candidate, was qualified and represented the right values. Hillary Clinton was a qualified candidate.

They were chosen based upon merit. Not some cute accessory about their skin color or gender. That's not an insult to Oprah's intellect or even ability to lead. She's just lacks the experience to be president. Shockingly, probably even more so than Donald Trump. Though, in her case, I think her inexperience versus his probably means fuck all, considering she has responsibility and ethics and he's just a fuckwad.

 

[anitram]

I think that Nick doesn’t quite understand Oprah as somebody who lives on Europe. The woman’s following and deep devotion among suburban women is a tale of legend.

I think that she would absolutely crush him.

Which is in no way an endorsement of her, but if we are in the era of celebrity I truthfully can’t think of a single one better suited to run for President and win than her.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I think that Nick doesn’t quite understand Oprah as somebody who lives on Europe. The woman’s following and deep devotion among suburban women is a tale of legend.

I think that she would absolutely crush him.

Which is in no way an endorsement of her, but if we are in the era of celebrity I truthfully can’t think of a single one better suited to run for President and win than her.

And I certainly agree with this.

 

[Nick66]

Oh for crying out loud, I know how popular Oprah is.

I don't care how popular as a talk show host she is. I think Oprah's popularity is a mile wide and an inch deep. The second she announces she's running, her "approval" rating drops 20+ points. The second she takes a stance on any issue, another 10. That's how politics works. And if "American suburban women" vote for her because they liked her talk show and her chats with Dr. Phil, then, sorry, American suburban women are as big idiots as those white working class males who voted for Trump. I'm guessing, and hoping, they have more sense than that. Didn't suburban white women (the Democrats anyway) go for HRC over Obama in the 2008 Democratic Primary, despite O's endorsement of Obama? And weren't a lot of O's fans annoyed with her when she broke her usual policy and endorsed Obama?

And I have zero indication from her career that she could withstand a Presidential primary or general election campaign. Nor that she has the skills to deflect and overcome lack of experience the way Trump did. To be frank, the only people I see taking this seriously are the celebrity press, news talking heads who want to push a story and people whose knowledge of politics is limited to their Twitter feed.

And if the Democrats nominate her they're just as ignorant as the Republicans who nominated Trump. I'd hope as a party the Dems would have more sense than that...but probably not. And if she somehow did run and win, I think in her own way she'd be as much of a disaster as Trump. The best thing about this happening would be seeing her Dem primary opponents try to run against Oprah without daring to say a single negative thing about her.

You guys are probably right, and I'm probably wrong. Oprah Winfrey could be elected President, and a lot of Americans would think that would be just great. So hey, if America elects Donald Trump, then Oprah Winfrey, you get the Government you deserve.

Well, most people just regurgitate what they hear. She's trending right now. How many people have actually put thought into her being president? To be honest, the very thought is celebrity + woman + black + liberal. Perfect modern day democratic candidate.

Yep.

 

[Irvine511]

I think that Nick doesn’t quite understand Oprah as somebody who lives on Europe. The woman’s following and deep devotion among suburban women is a tale of legend.

I think that she would absolutely crush him.

Which is in no way an endorsement of her, but if we are in the era of celebrity I truthfully can’t think of a single one better suited to run for President and win than her.

But it’s fun and contrarian to say that Trump will win again in 2020 because the thought is upsetting to liberals.

We’ve gotten to the point where virtually any of us are better suited to be president than Donald Trump. As a Russian asset with likely dimentia and pathological narcissism, he’s likely the worst person possible for the presidency. But reality TV delivered on the promise that anyone could be a star despite, or perhaps because of, any lack of talent. Perhaps now anyone can be president.

IRL, of course Oprah isn’t qualified nor should she run. But if the point of Trump to racists was to prove that if a black man can be elected than so can the worst white man, let’s fight fire with fire and defeat the worst white man with the best black woman. Huzzah!

Also, she actually earned her billions. No Russians required.

 

[BVS]

Oh for crying out loud, I know how popular Oprah is.

I don't care how popular as a talk show host she is. The second she announces she's running, her "approval" rating drops 20+ points. The second she takes a stance on any issue, another 10. That's how politics works. And if "American suburban women" vote for her because they liked her talk show and her chats with Dr. Phil, then, sorry, American suburban women are as big idiots as those white working class males who voted for Trump. I'm guessing, and hoping, they have more sense than that.

And I have zero indication from her career that she could withstand a Presidential primary or general election campaign. Nor that she has the skills to deflect and overcome lack of experience the way Trump did. To be frank, the only people I see taking this seriously are the celebrity press, news talking heads who want to push a story and people whose knowledge of politics is limited to their Twitter feed.

And if the Democrats nominate her they're just as ignorant as the Republicans who nominated Trump. I'd hope as a party the Dems would have more sense than that...but probably not. And if she somehow did run and win, I think in her own way she'd be as much of a disaster as Trump. The best thing about this happening would be seeing her Dem primary opponents try to run against Oprah without dare saying a single negative thing about her.

You guys are probably right, and I'm probably wrong. Oprah Winfrey could be elected President, and a lot of Americans would think that would be just great. So hey, if America elects Donald Trump, then Oprah Winfrey, you get the Government you deserve.



Yep.

No one in here is clamoring for an Oprah presidency, we’re just all baffled by your grasp on things.

We’re speaking hypotheticals, and I find it odd that you “certainly think” someone who couldn’t secure the pop vote, who’s approval ratings are that of roof rats, and is plagued by controversy would beat someone who’s likable, has no political baggage, and who’s wealth isn’t in question. That is just odd, conventional wisdom says, wtf?!

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Counterpoint: how many people actually considered what a Trump presidency would look like and only voted for him because he's a "good businessman" (he wasn't), "tells it like it is" (he doesn't), wanted to stick it to politicians and/or because "he's not Hillary" (can't argue with that).

Oprah actually is a successful businessperson, actually appears genuine, isn't a politician, and isn't Trump.

This isn't an endorsement... She shouldn't fucking run. My only point is that we should never underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate again. We're often distracted by shiny things.

If Oprah wants to run for president? Fine. But to run for lower office first. We're all stocked up on candidates with zero political experience, thanks.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

At this point I think Oprah is more qualified to be POTUS than Trump is. I'm not some white suburban woman devotee of Oprah. I admire so many things about her, but other things about her drive me up the wall.

Oprah and Trump both became filthy rich off tv and their personalities. Yes Trump had real estate. Probably mostly luck and shady business practices in that regard. Oprah was not born with a silver spoon in her mouth. She literally embodies the American dream. Trump went to Wharton and Oprah didn't, so what? Intelligence goes to Oprah imo.

 

[Nick66]

No one in here is clamoring for an Oprah presidency, we’re just all baffled by your grasp on things.

We’re speaking hypotheticals, and I find it odd that you “certainly think” someone who couldn’t secure the pop vote, who’s approval ratings are that of roof rats, and is plagued by controversy would beat someone who’s likable, has no political baggage, and who’s wealth isn’t in question. That is just odd, conventional wisdom says, wtf?!

Trumps approval ratings were awful, and was plagued by controversy the first time he ran. And if he runs in 2020 with the Russia investigation behind him (assuming he survives it) and a good economy anything is possible.

Yeah, he ran against an unpopular candidate who happened to also be incredibly experienced. Oprah's popularity has no where to go but down (and it would) and she doesn't have the experience to fall back on as a selling point...something, for all his faults, Trump would have after four years in the oval office. And I'm not convinced Oprah's popularity would be strong enough in the places she'd need to win...as HRC learned, California and NY only have so many electoral votes no matter how many people pull the lever for you there.

So yes, I believe the situation is a little more complex and not quite as clear cut as is being suggested here. I'm not saying it's impossible for her to win, I just think it's unlikely she'd even get the nomination, and if she did I think Trump would likely win. Anyway, it's all just stupid speculation. I doubt she's going to run, Trump may yet be indicted, and the election is in 2020..several lifetimes in politics.

 

[anitram]

We’ve gotten to the point where virtually any of us are better suited to be president than Donald Trump.

Ana Navarro was on CNN saying today how during Oprah's speech they also showed The Rock who had expressed some interest in running. And she was like "I'd vote for the Rock, hell I'd vote for any rock over Trump at this point." That's really it. I am 100% certain that Oprah is at least somewhat intellectually curious which Trump is not, about any topic, ever, at any time. That alone sets them apart.

I don't know what Oprah stands for and I doubt we'd ever really find out even if she ran. Somebody like that doesn't run on a platform but on platitudes and good oratory. And I don't understand why anybody would assume that the electorate in general isn't as dumb as a bag of hammers. If we are relying on the intelligence of the electorate to not get another celebrity then LOL honestly.

I don't see Trump winning again, but that's a guess 3 years out. We'll be in a lot better of a position to judge after the 2018 midterms. It would be very interesting to see what he does if the GOP loses the House and the Senate and he's left as the lame duck punching bag.

 

[anitram]

And I'm not convinced Oprah's popularity would be strong enough in the places she'd need to win...as HRC learned, California and NY only have so many electoral votes no matter how many people pull the lever for you there.

That is NOT where her votes lie. Coastal elite professional women are not watching the O Network, nor reading her bland magazine, nor did they grow up watching her shows with their mothers and grandmothers. This is what I mean when I say that I don't think you understand her cult of personality and who comprises it. It is all in the heartland and in flyover country, in the south, solidly middle class or lower middle class, equally popular among black and white women. It's suburban women, stay at home moms and their moms, my mother's generation (women born in the mid 50s-early 60s). She could name a book and it would skyrocket to the top of every bestseller list no matter how insipid it was. And it's a lot of women who may typically vote with their husbands (Trump voters) but who would absolutely pull the lever for this woman over following their "headship".

Again, I don't want the woman to run nor do I want her to win, and I find all of this to be kind of a big ass joke, Godzilla vs. King Kong of celebrities, but your utter dismissal of her without understanding just how much of a reach she has is a little bit baffling.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I love Ana Navarro. One of the best political commentators on tv, if not the best.

 

[Irvine511]

That is NOT where her votes lie. Coastal elite professional women are not watching the O Network, nor reading her bland magazine, nor did they grow up watching her shows with their mothers and grandmothers. This is what I mean when I say that I don't think you understand her cult of personality and who comprises it. It is all in the heartland and in flyover country, in the south, solidly middle class or lower middle class, equally popular among black and white women. It's suburban women, stay at home moms and their moms, my mother's generation (women born in the mid 50s-early 60s). She could name a book and it would skyrocket to the top of every bestseller list no matter how insipid it was. And it's a lot of women who may typically vote with their husbands (Trump voters) but who would absolutely pull the lever for this woman over following their "headship".



Again, I don't want the woman to run nor do I want her to win, and I find all of this to be kind of a big ass joke, Godzilla vs. King Kong of celebrities, but your utter dismissal of her without understanding just how much of a reach she has is a little bit baffling.

And unlike Trump, she has her own TV network.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Yeah, I mean, Oprah's audience... from what I imagine in my nonopraheducated mind, was probably shared with or competed with Judge Judy. Or soap operas. Or Jerry Springer. Or The View. Not that her show had the lack of intellect as displayed in something as tacky as Jerry Springer... but it has widespread appeal. Hardly any sort of appeal to already-rich "elite" folks who never squandered their time with public television.