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... I'm going to bed and pulling the covers over my head. Wake me up in time for the U2 tour, if we're still here.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about this missile. The Orangutan has tax cuts for himself to pass these days, he doesn't have time for overfed Korean slobs.
 
He doesn't have time for NK because he's too busy whining about black athletes and 'fake news' on Twitter.
 
The test is important and worrying for a few reasons.

One, the missile has flown significantly higher than any other they'e launched, which is an important step in increasing the range of their missiles, which could mean they're going from a regional to a global threat. Assuming they're able to get a payload on one of these things, they could potentially hit DC or NY.

Secondly, this is the first test after ten week pause. A lot of people who monitor such things were somewhat hopeful that Trump's increasing desire to be more confrontational with Kim was causing him to reconsider what NK was doing. Clearly, that's not the case, and Kim being willing to provoke an unstable and irrational Trump isn't good for anyone.

Third, South Korea responded with its own missile test, which just raises tensions in the area even more.

This whole North Korean thing is a dangerous fiasco, and an utter failure by the three previous governments to do anything meaningful about it, and now we're stuck with Trump with his finger on the button as things come to a head. They will have a weapon that can deliver a payload to the US by the time he leaves office. I never get worked up about stuff like this, it is what it is and I figure whatever's going to happen will happen. But when I saw that headline I got a chill and knew this was different.
 
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Kim doesn’t want to die. He wants to live and by having a nuke he can probably keep on eating his buffers while his country dies.

No evidence they can successfully launch a missile with a nuke and re enter without failure. Though that’s probably a matter of time.

My concern with NK having nukes is what is to stop them from trying to take SK? Now they would have a deterrent for any SK allies striking back.

It’s a mess, but i just can’t see WWIII yet
 
I agree Kim doesn't want to die, and it's not WWIII yet. That doesn't mean it's not an incredibly dangerous situation, especially with Trump in power. Frankly this situation should have never been allowed to get this far.

But as for the "there's no evidence that they can..." game, we've been playing that for for 20 years. And every few years they take another step, and then people say, "yeah, but they still can't x yet." At this point it's only a matter of when not if. We're way, way past "if".
 
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What’s the solution? I think we are stuck with them becoming a nuclear state
 
Israel is a nuclear state. Nobody panicked this way. India is. Pakistan is. Continue to condemn them as usual. When they're ready to grow up and join the rest of the world, they'll jump onboard nuclear nonproliferation.
 
Israel didn't launch test missiles towards Iran...

I give Trump this... He didn't create this issue. It should have been dealt with a long time ago. Alas, North Korea isn't sitting on a pool of oil so we allowed it to get to this point.

Trump being in charge when the issue might finally come to a head is fucking terrifying.
 
The test is important and worrying for a few reasons.

One, the missile has flown significantly higher than any other they'e launched, which is an important step in increasing the range of their missiles, which could mean they're going from a regional to a global threat. Assuming they're able to get a payload on one of these things, they could potentially hit DC or NY.

Secondly, this is the first test after ten week pause. A lot of people who monitor such things were somewhat hopeful that Trump's increasing desire to be more confrontational with Kim was causing him to reconsider what NK was doing. Clearly, that's not the case, and Kim being willing to provoke an unstable and irrational Trump isn't good for anyone.

Third, South Korea responded with its own missile test, which just raises tensions in the area even more.

This whole North Korean thing is a dangerous fiasco, and an utter failure by the three previous governments to do anything meaningful about it, and now we're stuck with Trump with his finger on the button as things come to a head. They will have a weapon that can deliver a payload to the US by the time he leaves office. I never get worked up about stuff like this, it is what it is and I figure whatever's going to happen will happen. But when I saw that headline I got a chill and knew this was different.



Unless you’re talking about tin foil hat Trump followers on Twitter, NO ONE who follows this thought Kim would back down based on Trump’s dick waving.

You are far too smart for this.
 
Israel didn't launch test missiles towards Iran...

I give Trump this... He didn't create this issue. It should have been dealt with a long time ago. Alas, North Korea isn't sitting on a pool of oil so we allowed it to get to this point.

Trump being in charge when the issue might finally come to a head is fucking terrifying.



Doesn't make them innocent. They developed nuclear arms. We panic at the idea of North Korea having nuclear weapons because they're not our ally. Russia, meanwhile, is merely condemning it.
 
The test is important and worrying for a few reasons.

One, the missile has flown significantly higher than any other they'e launched, which is an important step in increasing the range of their missiles, which could mean they're going from a regional to a global threat. Assuming they're able to get a payload on one of these things, they could potentially hit DC or NY.

Secondly, this is the first test after ten week pause. A lot of people who monitor such things were somewhat hopeful that Trump's increasing desire to be more confrontational with Kim was causing him to reconsider what NK was doing. Clearly, that's not the case, and Kim being willing to provoke an unstable and irrational Trump isn't good for anyone.

Third, South Korea responded with its own missile test, which just raises tensions in the area even more.

This whole North Korean thing is a dangerous fiasco, and an utter failure by the three previous governments to do anything meaningful about it, and now we're stuck with Trump with his finger on the button as things come to a head. They will have a weapon that can deliver a payload to the US by the time he leaves office. I never get worked up about stuff like this, it is what it is and I figure whatever's going to happen will happen. But when I saw that headline I got a chill and knew this was different.
The lull in testing was nothing to do with KJU backing down due to Trump, it was because of the seasonal slow down in missile tests which happen every year probably due to resources in NK being diverted in the winter https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2017/11/24/16686208/north-korea-trump-kim-missile
The "maximum pressure" drive by Trump against NK is absolutely nuts and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we see an atmospheric burst test over the Pacific by NK soon. The situation is a shit show.
 
I think it's more along the lines of their leader appears to be unhinged vs them not being our ally.



Our leader appears to be unhinged, too. Their nuclear program predates their current leader, as does ours. So the ally thing wasn't particularly looking at the current Kim or Trump.

I fear there has been little in the way of a long term approach on how to deal with North Korea. A standoff is a solid way to make things worse.

I also don't think Kim is as "unhinged" as the media portrays him to be. I just think we are looking at fierce hermit authoritarianism. I would argue Trump is more unhinged than Kim is - just perhaps less cruel.
 
For sure, but I'd argue it's Kim milking Trump for every minute of fame he can get. I'd venture to say Trump is far more willing to go to war than Kim is.

As for the ICBM going "ten times higher than the ISS" or whatever bullshit Mattis is fapping to as he cleans out is gun... stahpppppp. They know how to make rockets. Making a nuclear warhead is a lot more worrisome than making a rocket. And making a rocket pinpoint its target is a lot more worrisome than making a rocket fly high.

Repeat: making a big rocket isn't difficult. There's nothing threatening about having "more range." If they wanted to have infinite range a year ago they could've. Scalable technology. These rockets are probably literally just bigger versions of the last one they launched.
 
Unless you’re talking about tin foil hat Trump followers on Twitter, NO ONE who follows this thought Kim would back down based on Trump’s dick waving.

I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been. I wasn't suggesting any experts, Republican or Democrat, were endorsing Trump's Tweet strategy or thought it would work. In fact most said it likely wouldn't work. I'm talking about endorsement of the "peace through strength" doctrine in general. During the ten week "pause" North Korea had on testing, there were experts who said that such a strategy can be appropriate in these situations, and were commenting that perhaps there was some movement in Pyongyang during this period. It wasn't so much "it's working" as, "well, maybe there's something there."

And a "peace through strength" is in fact a legitimate way of dealing with people like Kim, even if Trump is completely devoid of the deftness and discipline to effectively carry out such a strategy.

Israel didn't launch test missiles towards Iran...

I give Trump this... He didn't create this issue. It should have been dealt with a long time ago. Alas, North Korea isn't sitting on a pool of oil so we allowed it to get to this point.

Trump being in charge when the issue might finally come to a head is fucking terrifying.

Yes to both points.

I don't take seriously the arguments of anyone who compares North Korea to Israel, a stable democracy (whatever you think of their treatment of Palestinians), or the US. It's frankly the stupidest kind of false equivalence.

I similarly can't take seriously any arguments that North Korea isn't a threat because their technology doesn't allow them to do x yet (and x changes with seemingly every launch). Again, we've been saying that for 20 years, and incrementally they get closer and closer to their goal. To suggest they're not a threat and mock their capabilities is stick your head in the sand denialism. It's like having a fire raging ten miles from your house and saying "it's still ten miles away" and the next day saying "it's still five miles away" and so on until it's too late.

I understand the instinct to be skeptical and against something simply because Trump's going on about it. But it's not just Trump and Manafort. Most arms experts are saying North Korea is a becoming a legitimate nuclear threat.

You are far too smart for this.

You've seen me in these politics threads. I had my shot. I'm the hunted one. You give me far too much credit kid. I ain't that clever.
 
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Indeed.

Flynn announcement?



There’s been a lot of articles released over the past few weeks related to him, so that’s best guess.

Trump’s actions appear to be the the attempts to cause as much shit and damage before the House comes tumbling down.

IF Flynn did flip, have to imagine the other dominos fall pretty quick. There has to be so much information though that we can’t assume this investigation is even close to being over
 
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