US Politics IV

[BVS]

BigMacPhisto, if you're around, take a bow



Re-reading bits of the "2016 US Presidential Election" threads today in regards to the Mrs. Clinton / Bernie race is really something else



Your perspective was pretty much on point the whole time, and looking even more so lately...

We get it, reading comprehension is hard. If you don’t have Hannity there to explain it to you, how will you know what she really said?

You know, reading multiple sources, or I don’t know actually reading the book is just too hard. But go ahead, raise your glass to someone who was completely wrong, continue living in that bubble, I’m sure it’s a nice warm and cozy safe zone.

 

[BEAL]

Wilbur Ross now in the news for his ties to Russia.

Follow the $$$$$

People in the Trump administration are all Russian until proven otherwise

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Wilbur Ross now in the news for his ties to Russia.

Follow the $$$$$

People in the Trump administration are all Russian until proven otherwise

At this point, if I were to believe many liberals, even I might have some unknown ties to the Trump administration ...

 

[LuckyNumber7]

At this point, if I were to believe many liberals, even I might have some unknown ties to the Trump administration ...

Your name is vlad.

Curious though, what's your opinion of the Mueller investigation and the Russian ties?

And as an additive, what's your take on the funny little dual citizenship thing that seems to be.. plaguing.. Australia's politics?

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Curious though, what's your opinion of the Mueller investigation and the Russian ties?

I was initially very skeptical of it, though now understand that it does have some legs - but I see it only as one of numerous components of why the US is in the position it is right now. On the other hand, the anti-Russian-everything hysteria that accompanies it (and yes, there is a laughable lack of knowledge mixed with xenophobia - I see this a lot among "#TheResistance" Twitter liberals) is so deeply aggravating it makes it hard to sympathise with Democrat supporters at all.

And as an additive, what's your take on the funny little dual citizenship thing that seems to be.. plaguing.. Australia's politics?

I think the law itself is a bit ridiculous, but at the same it's playing a big role in condemning this already unpopular government to a certain election loss. Part of the issue is some politicians trying to hide from it when they suspect that they are found to be in breach of the law, which certainly doesn't help.

However, a much bigger and more pressing issue is the Australian state's commitment to perpetuating human rights abuses in regards to refugees.

 

[BEAL]

I have nothing against Russians. Not a fan of Putin, but don’t consider Russians evil

I’m more disappointed in the con job pulled over this country. And it didn’t start with Trump.

Maybe a silver lining to all this is the exposure of just how corrupt our politicians and policies have become.

Maybe a Bernie type does have a chance in a national election

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I have nothing against Russians. Not a fan of Putin, but don’t consider Russians evil

I’m more disappointed in the con job pulled over this country. And it didn’t start with Trump.

Sums up my attitude on all of this. I haven't personally encountered any general anti-Russian sentiment online (course, I'm also not on Twitter), but anyone out there who is using this as a reason/excuse to hate Russians in general, yeah, that's just dumb.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

the anti-Russian-everything hysteria that accompanies it.

Always been that way, but I agree it's always been silly. But this of course is a little beyond that.

I think the law itself is a bit ridiculous

I think it's a hilarious and stupid law. I know they make a big deal out of it, but as a citizen of multiple countries, I think it's plain dumb. Eapiecally in lands like the US or Australia, where everyone is a damn dual citizen if they dig hard enough.

but at the same it's playing a big role in condemning this already unpopular government to a certain election loss. Part of the issue is some politicians trying to hide from it when they suspect that they are found to be in breach of the law, which certainly doesn't help.

This is the real reason I asked. Take that and apply it to the Trump thing. Fits perfectly. Only difference is that a foreign country does aim to benefit from the Trump thing. Suggesting dual citizenship is somehow a foreign allegiance is... in just about every case... grasping at straws.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I pop open Fox News to see the other side from time to time. To peer into the minds of what people are fed.

Exhibit A:


The church shooting is depicted in "darkest hour" format for Fox mobile, much as the Vegas and Pulse shootings were for CNN (which sort of makes sense, given the audiences and what the emotional appeal from media).

Unbelievably, Fox News still has related article links that are wildly inappropriate for the matter.

Exhibit B:


Didn't know what I was opening until I opened it and realized it was about the NYC attack. Interesting choice of words, to say the least.

Let's cut the PC garbage. Take their guns away.

 

[Irvine511]

Watch the VA race tomorrow. It shouldn’t be close, it is. Gillespie is playing filthy, nasty white identity politics, and it seems to be working.

If it does, we are in for years of ugliness as a white population in decline — in so many ways — lashes out.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Watch the VA race tomorrow. It shouldn’t be close, it is. Gillespie is playing filthy, nasty white identity politics, and it seems to be working.

If it does, we are in for years of ugliness as a white population in decline — in so many ways — lashes out.

The ads Gillespie has been running are shockingly disgusting. I didn't think ads like that were a thing anymore.

 

[BEAL]

Trump lowered the bar. I'm not so much afraid of him, but what follows him. He has shown not just the US, but the world what can be achieved by being a racist moron. A rich one of course.

So who shows up next? People always degrade a current leader as "the next Hitler", but could there actually be the next one just waiting under the surface? One who isn't as fucking stupid as Trump. Who doesn't collude (as openly) with a foreign enemy. Someone who taps into the same energy Trump did, but with more social tact to appear better to urban America. Trump didn't even really TRY to win this thing. He was in it for himself, for his ego. Russia obviously had some influence, but a large portion of the country wanted this (and a outdated electoral system gave it to him)

I don't know how the bar gets raised. Doubtful James Cameron saves us

 

[corianderstem]

I keep hearing talk of Sanders running again for 2020. Dude would be 80. Do we trust him to drive the country for four years at that age? I'd even say Clinton would be pushing it in 4 years

Sheesh, where are the younger politicians?

This might be ageist of me and I'll own up to that, but that honestly worries me.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I keep hearing talk of Sanders running again for 2020. Dude would be 80. Do we trust him to drive the country for four years at that age? I'd even say Clinton would be pushing it in 4 years

Sheesh, where are the younger politicians?

This might be ageist of me and I'll own up to that, but that honestly worries me.

It's not. Clinton/Biden/Sanders/Warren will all be too old for 2020. I hope none of them run as anything other than a VP, as it must be viewed as an 8 year role. I think they're all good for 4 years, though. Otherwise it'll hamper their bid and risk losing the election.

The democrats have an age crisis for prominent members.

 

[corianderstem]

Dang, I didn't realize Warren was in her late 60s!

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Dang, I didn't realize Warren was in her late 60s!

She actually might be a suitable age upon consideration. I thought she was 71.

Anyways though, yeah, it's got to be a careful consideration. I would say pushing 80s is too old and will be criticized.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Trump lowered the bar. I'm not so much afraid of him, but what follows him. He has shown not just the US, but the world what can be achieved by being a racist moron. A rich one of course.

So who shows up next? People always degrade a current leader as "the next Hitler", but could there actually be the next one just waiting under the surface? One who isn't as fucking stupid as Trump. Who doesn't collude (as openly) with a foreign enemy. Someone who taps into the same energy Trump did, but with more social tact to appear better to urban America. Trump didn't even really TRY to win this thing. He was in it for himself, for his ego. Russia obviously had some influence, but a large portion of the country wanted this (and a outdated electoral system gave it to him)

I don't know how the bar gets raised. Doubtful James Cameron saves us

Dick Spencer would be that man - but thankfully he gets punched and/or heckled wherever he goes so that'd keep him down for a while.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

What about Kirsten Gillibrand?

I just watched Donna Brazile on the CBS Morning Show. She's out promoting her book and she was very uncomfortable when asked directly about the things she said about Hillary in the book. Even Obama. Nothing wrong with her honesty but don't put it in a book to sell books then squirm and get defensive when you have to talk about it.

It was all just cringeworthy, no wonder the Democratic party is an f ed up mess. Hillary's campaign was too, and the clown reaped that reward. Lots of infighting and immaturity and egos above what mattered.

 

[BEAL]

The party has no message. Or clear one.

They get sucked into identity politics, or the perception is (which is reality...)

They somehow appear more the party of Wall Street (Hillary’s transcripts!!!) than the GOP, yet every GOP bill favors only the rich.

I do agree they should take on a lot of Bernie talk. At least have something to stand on. But they are going up against a machine of lunacy. Nothing matters to the GOP, not anymore. They are the religious right party who nominated a sexual predator, multiple married, non religious moron to their throne.

So for the Dems, keep the message simple. They won’t win the election with facts anymore

 

[mama cass]

Dick Spencer would be that man - but thankfully he gets punched and/or heckled wherever he goes so that'd keep him down for a while.

did you see his interview with Gary Younge? omg my skin is crawling!

 

[anitram]

The truth is that the Democratic Party really suffered under Obama in the sense that he did not do what he could to promote the party and encourage growth from within. I like him but he was elected more on his personality than the strength of the party and he carried on the same way. This has left a pretty large hole in the ranks and they will have a lot of growing pains now trying to come up with the next generation.

I think Bruce Springsteen should run, I mean if we're in the era of celebrities, why the hell not. At least then those men of Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc, would be in a bit of a pickle as to how to vote. I am only half joking.

 

[Nick66]

President Obama's failure to expand the Democratic party....in fact it was decimated during his eight years...is partially the reason he won't be regarded as the "transformative" President he wanted to be, ala Jackson, Lincoln, FDR and in particular, Reagan.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I'm sure Obama frequently looked up to Reagan.

 

[Nick66]

Politically, no. Of course not. But Obama said one more than occasion that he hoped to be a transformational president, like Reagan...and unlike Bill Clinton.

It's possible to recognize Reagan as a transformative President (which he was) without agreeing with the way he transformed the country, and its politics.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Yes, I know, I was just teasing the thought.

 

[Nick66]

Well actually, Obama used to have semi-regular roundtables with leading historians, some of whom later reported that Obama expressed his admiration for Reagan's style in handling his Presidency, even if he disagreed politically. Though one can only imagine that he wasn't refering to Iran-Contra in speaking of his admiration.

President Obama was very concerned about his place in history, and he really did want to be a transformative, and not merely good or even great President.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

After the 10-20 year delay needed for assessment, history will treat him very well IMO.

 

[Nick66]

Yes, these things take time. Certainly he'll be given credit, and rightfully so, for righting the ship on the American economy, for example.

As for whether he'll ultimately be regarded as a transformative President, and one of the all time greats, will depend on how much of his signature achievements survive. All of that took a big blow when Clinton lost. Obama apparently thought her victory was crucial to his long term legacy, simply because she would have solidified and continued his most important achievements. Which Trump is now working to undue (with mixed results so far).

Of course that's to say nothing of what happened to the Democratic party during his time in office. Both FDR and Reagan significantly strengthened and expanded their respective parties while in office, and doing so change the political paradigm for decades.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

did you see his interview with Gary Younge? omg my skin is crawling!

Yes! I was considering mentioning it, because on one hand Gary was brilliantly fearless in confronting him - and virtually cornered him - and on the other it was clear that despite how odious Spencer is, he is really an intellectual lightweight who deserves to be punched as much as possible.

 

[corianderstem]

On the one hand, I wish people would stop giving that shitbird air time.

On the other hand, I wish all journalists would treat him like Younge did.