US Politics III

[DaveC]

i'm legit the only one who notices when these threads go over 1000 anymore. diemen even posted like 5 times after the post limit [emoji38]

continue.

 

[Diemen]

I try to leave my subjective experiences out of the discussion - as much as possible. Even if I had answered with a list , you would say sarcastically "Oh, poor white male, can't handle a little discrimination after centuries of discriminating others..."

So, you don't answer the question and then tell people how they would respond if you chose to?

I'd be genuinely curious to hear of moments of actual oppression based on your skin color.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

To AEON's last post...

No. That's a bullshit answer. That's an answer of someone who doesn't have an answer.

What has been done to you, as a straight white male, to oppress you, simply based on the color of your skin or your choice of religion? Please be specific.

 

[AEON]

So, you don't answer the question and then tell people how they would respond if you chose to?

I'd be genuinely curious to hear of moments of actual oppression based on your skin color.

I don't think I've experienced much. I have found myself in the wrong neighborhood a few times and nearly paid the ultimate price...but I'm not sure that counts.

So, I have not experienced oppression - and I have not oppressed others. I obey the law. I do not hire or fire based on race or gender. I do not harm people. I treat all people with respect and courtesy unless I am attacked (which doesn't happen because I don't walk around with my politics on my hat or shirt...and I'm not a small guy).

 

[shineon]

To AEON's last post...

No. That's a bullshit answer. That's an answer of someone who doesn't have an answer.

What has been done to you, as a straight white male, to oppress you, simply based on the color of your skin or your choice of religion? Please be specific.

I asked the same question several pages back: Where do you face discrimination? He chooses not to answer.
There's someone like this on @u2. Could be the same guy, I guess.
In response to Aeon's stating that people flock to "the white system": There is no "white system." America's strength lies in the fact that her liberties transcend race, or at least that's what we aspire to. Blacks and others are only asking that we move over a little to make room for them so they can share in our admittedly wonderful way of life. Yes, we should protect that way of life while recognizing that not everyone has had an equal share, either historically or currently. If you think the Constitution somehow has made these liberties equal for all in 2017, you are literally kidding yourself. But you did have the balls to admit that you want to limit voting rights, so maybe 'fessing up to being a Nazi sympathizer is not far behind.
As for liking "Ultraviolet" best, I believe you have good tastes in U2 music. It's your politics that needs some work. Free your mind.

 

[AEON]

I asked the same question several pages back: Where do you face discrimination? He chooses not to answer.
There's someone like this on @u2. Could be the same guy, I guess.
In response to Aeon's stating that people flock to "the white system": There is no "white system." America's strength lies in the fact that her liberties transcend race, or at least that's what we aspire to. Blacks and others are only asking that we move over a little to make room for them so they can share in our admittedly wonderful way of life. Yes, we should protect that way of life while recognizing that not everyone has had an equal share, either historically or currently. If you think the Constitution somehow has made these liberties equal for all in 2017, you are literally kidding yourself. But you did have the balls to admit that you want to limit voting rights, so maybe 'fessing up to being a Nazi sympathizer is not far behind.
As for liking "Ultraviolet" best, I believe you have good tastes in U2 music. It's your politics that needs some work. Free your mind.

I have not experienced oppression...nor do I wish to start experiencing oppression.

 

[AEON]

Free your mind.

You are the one speaking for the establishment...

 

[anitram]

If only you'd realize/accept that the same is true for probably all or 99% of those Nazis marching in Charlottesville or their sympathizers.

And if you'd then further accept that perhaps somebody like you is probably not the best arbiter of what is and isn't racist in today's society. That maybe, just maybe, a black woman from the inner city understands the concept a little bit better than you.

 

[AEON]

There is no "white system." .

Agree! Now we can end the discussion about systemic white oppression and inherent white privilege. If there is no white system, then none of these other "built-in" things are possible.

 

[AEON]

If only you'd realize/accept that the same is true for probably all or 99% of those Nazis marching in Charlottesville or their sympathizers.

And if you'd then further accept that perhaps somebody like you is probably not the best arbiter of what is and isn't racist in today's society. That maybe, just maybe, a black woman from the inner city understands the concept a little bit better than you.

Disagree. Something like racism must be universally applied - or not at all. We cannot pick and choose which races get more leeway, and which races get more scrutiny. That is - well - racist.

 

[BVS]

Disagree. Something like racism must be universally applied - or not at all. We cannot pick and choose which races get more leeway, and which races get more scrutiny. That is - well - racist.

Are you having issues comprehending her posts? Because you keep twisting them to say something she's not saying.

 

[Diemen]

Agree! Now we can end the discussion about systemic white oppression and inherent white privilege. If there is no white system, then none of these other "built-in" things are possible.

You, a white male, don't get to say "I've never been the victim of oppression" and then dismiss the existence of white privilege.

 

[mama cass]

Mother of two black and three white kids' post on racism is a must read

As a white mother of two black children and three white children, who all have a white father, I have something to say. Racism exists. It is real and tangible. And it is everywhere, all the time.

When I brought my boys home they were the cutest, sweetest babies ever. Wherever we went, people greeted us with charm and enthusiasm. Well, not all people and not everywhere. But, to me, they were the "wacko" exceptions. I thought to myself, "Get over it".

Now my boys are teenagers. Black teenagers. They are 13.

Let me ask you these questions.

Do store personnel follow your children when they are picking out their Gatorade flavors? They don't follow my white kids.

Do coffee shop employees interrogate your children about the credit card they are using to pay while you are in the bathroom? They don't interrogate my white kids. When your kids go for trick-or-treat, dressed as a Ninja and a clown, do they get asked who they are with and where they live, door-after-door? My white kids don't get asked.

Do your kids get pulled out of the TSA line time and again for additional screening? My white kids don't.

Do your kids get treated one way when they are standing alone but get treated a completely different way when you walk up? I mean a completely different way. My white kids don't.

Do shoe sales people ask if your kids' feet are clean before sizing them for shoes? No one ask my white kids that. Do complete strangers ask to touch your child's hair? Or ask if they are "from druggies"? No one does this with my white kids.

Do you have to tell your kids not to fight back because they will be seen as aggressive if they stand up for themselves?

Have you had to discuss with your husband whether you should take your children to the police station to introduce them to the officers so they would know your children are legitimate members of your community?

Have you had to talk to your children about EXACTLY what to say and what not to say to an officer?

Have you had to tell your children that the objective of any encounter with the police, or security in any form, is to stay alive? It never occurred to me to have these conversations with my white children. In fact, it never occurred to me for myself either.

There is no question that my boys have been cloaked in my protection when they were small. What I did not realise until now is that the cloak I was offering them was an identification with my whiteness. As they grow independent, they step out from my cloak and lose that protection. The world sees "them" differently.

It is sweet when they are adopted, little black boys so graciously taken in by this nice white family. But when they are real people? Well, it is not the same. And they still look like little boys. What happens to them when they look like the strong, proud black men I am raising?

The reason why the phrase "All Lives Matter" is offensive to black people is because it isn't true. Right now, in America, my black children are treated differently than my white children.

So when you say "All Lives Matter" as a response to the phrase "Black Lives Matter" you are completely dismissing the near daily experience of racism for those with pigment in their skin, curl in their hair and broadness of their nose.

I am posting this so you can see the reality I have witnessed and experienced, because, frankly, I didn't believe it was true until I saw it up close, directed at two souls I love, over and over again.

So, please, use this post as a pair of glasses to see the racism that surrounds you. Then we can actually make progress towards all lives being valued and cherished.

 

[nbelcik]

Disagree. Something like racism must be universally applied - or not at all. We cannot pick and choose which races get more leeway, and which races get more scrutiny. That is - well - racist.

Racism is a matter of power. If a black person in 1824 who was a slave said that white people are terrible do you believe that it is anywhere near the magnitude of a white person in that same era calling that slave the N-word?

 

[AEON]

You, a white male, don't get to say "I've never been the victim of oppression" and then dismiss the existence of white privilege.

My skin color should not determine whether or not I have an equal voice in this country.

 

[AEON]

Racism is a matter of power. If a black person in 1824 who was a slave said that white people are terrible do you believe that it is anywhere near the magnitude of a white person in that same era calling that slave the N-word?

So, when white people become the minority, THEN it is okay for them to be racist?

 

[AEON]

You, a white male, don't get to say "I've never been the victim of oppression" and then dismiss the existence of white privilege.

Diemen, with all due respect - your argument is basically guilty of the Genetic Fallacy.

You are stating that I cannot speak on this subject because of my genetic/ethnic origin.

 

[BVS]

My skin color should not determine whether or not I have an equal voice in this country.

Would someone who has never served be able to speak to about serving for this country?

 

[Irvine511]

Agree! Now we can end the discussion about systemic white oppression and inherent white privilege. If there is no white system, then none of these other "built-in" things are possible.

You said you've lived your life free of oppression.

Do you think a non-white person would say the same?

That's white privilege.

 

[AEON]

Would someone who has never served be able to speak to about serving for this country?

Would someone who has never suffered under Nazi Germany be able to speak out against Nazi Germany? Of course.

I can certainly speak out against racism without being a direct victim or racism. Trying to fix racism with racism is certainly not the answer.

 

[AEON]

You said you've lived your life free of oppression.

Do you think a non-white person would say the same?

That's white privilege.

I think there are many non-whites that would claim they are not being oppressed. Also - if America was so oppressive to non-whites, then why do they keep flooding into here? I personally wouldn't move to a country with a built-in system that would oppress me and my family...

 

[BVS]

I think there are many non-whites that would claim they are not being oppressed. Also - if America was so oppressive to non-whites, then why do they keep flooding into here? I personally wouldn't move to a country with a built-in system that would oppress me and my family...

Oppression doesn't have to come always in a daily form and fashion.

But to answer your question, it's probably our parades.

 

[AEON]

Oppression doesn't have to come always in a daily form and fashion.

But to answer your question, it's probably our parades.

I walked into that...

 

[nbelcik]

So, when white people become the minority, THEN it is okay for them to be racist?

Once again, racism is a matter of power. When a race has the power to systemically oppress another race, that is what racism is. When a race has the power to back up its racial slurs with systems and institutions that are designed to discriminate and oppress, that is what racism is.

 

[Irvine511]

Looks like Trump is going full "white power" as east Texas is about to become a disaster area and dominate the news.

 

[BVS]

Trump pardons Arpaio, land of law and order.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

i'm legit the only one who notices when these threads go over 1000 anymore. diemen even posted like 5 times after the post limit [emoji38]

LOL, yeah, that didn't even hit me until after my last post in the previous thread, either .

 

[Diemen]

Diemen, with all due respect - your argument is basically guilty of the Genetic Fallacy.



You are stating that I cannot speak on this subject because of my genetic/ethnic origin.

No, I'm stating that you have a GIGANTIC blind spot when it comes to recognizing the privilege it takes to state that you have never faced oppression and yet deny the existence of white privilege.

 

[AEON]

No, I'm stating that you have a GIGANTIC blind spot when it comes to recognizing the privilege it takes to state that you have never faced oppression and yet deny the existence of white privilege.

Would you believe ANY American white man if they say they have been oppressed? I'm guessing no. So whether I admit to being oppressed or not is of zero consequence, so why even ask?

Either way - I am expected to accept this thing called white privilege that I cannot possible see or experience or measure. I can only accept what others say about it.

If it cannot be objectively measured and discussed, then people can attach anything they want to it. Do you not see the danger in that? And how do we end this invisible force? What is the measure that we will declare victory? How could white people know the end of this so-called white privilege, if they don't even know it exists? That things are suddenly very shitty for them? How is that okay?

I would rather it be shitty for no race. Enforce the laws. No double standards. That is what gives stability to society. This is both measurable and practical.

 

[AEON]

Once again, racism is a matter of power. When a race has the power to systemically oppress another race, that is what racism is. When a race has the power to back up its racial slurs with systems and institutions that are designed to discriminate and oppress, that is what racism is.

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

- the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Source: Google Dictionary