US Politics III

[BVS]

Is it not a fact that legal and illegal immigration add to the supply of available labor? This makes labor cheaper - and it also has a terrible impact on the black working class communities. And is it not also true - that since 1965 - these areas are almost entirely run by Democrats?

Why do you think they effect black working class communities over other communities?

 

[AEON]

Why do you think they effect black working class communities over other communities?

Because in the 1900s, they started moving out of the South to the areas with the jobs. Over time, had they not been undercut by mass immigration (and then mass globalization and the outsourcing of the few jobs left), these communities might be thriving today (or, at a minimum, not be the economic disasters they are today). It seems that the black working class was never given the chance to rise to the middle class because their communities were squashed by unemployment and underemployment (caused by mass immigration and then globalization - both strongly encouraged by Democrats. Again - they are the party that provides cheap labor for their donors and their own pockets)

 

[CMIS]

I was not afraid
Of anything in this world,
There was nothing you could've thrown at me
That I hadn't already heard

But this is really worse
Than when it was raining toads
Now in the fucking White House
An orange madman has the codes

I never thought that she could lose
But the college had us screwed
She didn't campaign enough
And the emails were very rough
Plus smart people don't vote now, it's crazy

We've got to move to Canada now
Or we're stuck with a moron that we can't get rid of
Who knows, maybe Mexico'll be better
Cause we're stuck with a moron that we can't get rid of.

 

[BVS]

Because in the 1900s, they started moving out of the South to the areas with the jobs. Over time, had they not been undercut by mass immigration (and then mass globalization and the outsourcing of the few jobs left), these communities might be thriving today (or, at a minimum, not be the economic disasters they are today). It seems that the black working class was never given the chance to rise to the middle class because their communities were squashed by unemployment and underemployment (caused by mass immigration and then globalization - both strongly encouraged by Democrats. Again - they are the party that provides cheap labor for their donors and their own pockets)

Reagan and Thatcher were two of the biggest pioneers of globalization.

Do you also remember that we had segregation going on during that time period? Whoops, slipped my mind, it's the damn democrats.

I live in a market that is Democrat ran, 65% Hispanic, very much driven by immigration labor, and is one of the fastest growing markets in the country.

But I know, pesky facts.

I am not a democrat, and personally don't understand party loyalists, but this picture you're painting is utterly ridiculous.

 

[AEON]

Reagan and Thatcher were two of the biggest pioneers of globalization. .

And there are those who think that was a mistake. I don't think the Democrats are too upset about that...

Do you also remember that we had segregation going on during that time period? Whoops, slipped my mind, it's the damn democrats..

And taking away their jobs and giving them to recent immigrants would help that situation?

I live in a market that is Democrat ran, 65% Hispanic, very much driven by immigration labor, and is one of the fastest growing markets in the country. .

I'm not sure what you are trying to assert here? On face value, it seems you are suggesting that under Democratic rule - Hispanic immigrants are capable of doing something black citizens are not.

 

[AEON]

We've got to move to Canada now
Or we're stuck with a moron that we can't get rid of
Who knows, maybe Mexico'll be better
Cause we're stuck with a moron that we can't get rid of.

Or, you can vote him out...

 

[BVS]

And there are those who think that was a mistake. I don't think the Democrats are too upset about that...

Yet it throws a big wrench in the picture you're trying to paint.

And taking away their jobs and giving them to recent immigrants would help that situation?

Not what I'm saying. My point is that there are obviously more factors that played a part rather just Democrats and immigrants. I know facts get in the way, and we're a post fact society under Trump, but facts still matter. And pictures painted with ideology over fact paint brushes are bullshit revisionist landscapes.

I'm not sure what you are trying to assert here? On face value, it seems you are suggesting that under Democratic rule - Hispanic immigrants are capable of doing something black citizens are not.

I'm saying your simpleton equation of Democrats and immigrants is fuzzy math.

 

[Irvine511]

And your Republican run cities are all crystal clean without a single issue, right?

By nearly every development metric, it's much better to live in blue states than red states.

 

[AEON]

By nearly every development metric, it's much better to live in blue states than red states.

Tell that to these folks in sunny Southern California

 

[AEON]

Yet it throws a big wrench in the picture you're trying to paint.

I concede that conservatives should not have supported globalization in the 1980s. Do you concede that globalization (and immigration) had a negative impact on the black working class in America?

 

[BVS]

Tell that to these folks in sunny Southern California

Look guys, I found a YouTube video, with absolutely no context.

This proves my point; Republican Party rules!!!

 

[BVS]

I concede that conservatives should not have supported globalization in the 1980s. Do you concede that globalization (and immigration) had a negative impact on the black working class in America?

Globalization has a negative impact when you look at things in a micro nationalist simpleton manner. But tell me that you understand you wouldn't have that affordable smart phone that's in your hand right now if we didn't have a global market?

If you can't see that, then we'll never be able to have an intellectual discussion.

You hired a man that has economic ties all over the world, you can't actually believe that destroying globalization was actually on the table.

It's just a catch phrase for the Bannon and Alex Jones types. I'm sorry you got conned.

 

[shineon]

Globalization has a negative impact when you look at things in a micro nationalist simpleton manner. But tell me that you understand you wouldn't have that affordable smart phone that's in your hand right now if we didn't have a global market?

If you can't see that, then we'll never be able to have an intellectual discussion.

You hired a man that has economic ties all over the world, you can't actually believe that destroying globalization was actually on the table.

It's just a catch phrase for the Bannon and Alex Jones types. I'm sorry you got conned.

I think it's ludicrous to assume that Americans would give up the inexpensive goods they've come to expect because of some AmericaFirst ideology. If Americans want to make these goods, then we should figure out how to compete effectively in a global market. We are not going to turn back the tide to some sort of 1950's ideal. It is extremely naive and simplistic to think so.

 

[BVS]

I think it's ludicrous to assume that Americans would give up the inexpensive goods they've come to expect because of some AmericaFirst ideology. If Americans want to make these goods, then we should figure out how to compete effectively in a global market. We are not going to turn back the tide to some sort of 1950's ideal. It is extremely naive and simplistic to think so.

Walmart's shelves would be empty and Trump wouldn't have any oversized ties to sell, yet they don't get it. They'll continue to post Alex Jones globalist bs from their smartphones that wouldn't exist if we were still just a coal mining country.

It's painful to watch.

 

[anitram]

These people collectively lack the intellectual curiosity to even attempt to think critically.

Which is why they can't understand that their addiction to, and reliance on, plentiful cheap goods at places like Walmart is entirely due to globalization.

In some abstract form, they want everything to be made in America and MAGA and all that but there is the inability and/or unwillingness to consider what that means down the food chain and how that cascades down to them specifically.

They are intellectually lazy (I don't mind saying it) and instead choose to listen to Alex Jones, Fox News and the idiot-in-chief who feed into their ignorance and reinforce their erroneous beliefs.

At some point, people really do need to take responsibility for themselves. In today's age where information is readily available to nearly everybody, it is pathetic that some people choose to parrot nonsense.

And then the rest of us need to be polite and reach out and "listen to their side" of total nonsense. No, thanks. Some of us have caught on to the futility of such an exercise and have moved on.

 

[AEON]

Globalization has a negative impact when you look at things in a micro nationalist simpleton manner.

I suppose here is where I am more "Liberal" than you. I do not consider the rampant unemployment of the black community (cause by immigration and globalization...i.e.,the search for the cheapest labor possible) a "micro nationalist simpleton manner" It is the primary cause of the problems in the Democratic ruled black communities.

It seems odd that you claim to be so concerned about the black community, yet somehow seem okay with this part of the economic model that keeps them unemployed while it ALSO exploits the Third World labor force (i.e., slavery-lite).

Like a said, the Democrats have not changed since the Civil War, they just repainted their exterior. The non-advertised top priority is always to provide cheap labor to their donors.

 

[AEON]

Walmart's shelves would be empty and Trump wouldn't have any oversized ties to sell, yet they don't get it. They'll continue to post Alex Jones globalist bs from their smartphones that wouldn't exist if we were still just a coal mining country.

It's painful to watch.

Without cheap labor, entrepreneurs would find alternative (technical) ways to make these beautiful faux silk shirt drapes for the wonderful Walmart patrons. (Do they really sell ties at Walmart?)

 

[AEON]

These people collectively lack the intellectual curiosity to even attempt to think critically.

What do you mean these people?

 

[anitram]

Anyone who believes that Trump will give them their manufacturing jobs back (MAGA!!) rather than realizing technology is replacing them.

 

[AEON]

Anyone who believes that Trump will give them their manufacturing jobs back (MAGA!!) rather than realizing technology is replacing them.

...so, you're cool with black unemployment and all of the consequences that come with it?

 

[anitram]

I don't think blacks with unemployment issues fall into the category I'm talking about.

They also didn't vote for the abomination in office, probably singularly the group with the least blame in the last election.

 

[BVS]

I suppose here is where I am more "Liberal" than you. I do not consider the rampant unemployment of the black community because of immigration and globalization (i.e.,the search for the cheapest labor possible) a "micro nationalist simpleton manner" - I think it is the primary cause of the problems in the Democratic rules inner-cities.

It seems odd that you claim to be so concerned about the black community, but somehow seem okay with this part of the economic model that keeps them unemployed and exploits the Third World labor force (i.e., slavery-lite). Like a said, the Democrats have not changed since the Civil War - their non-advertised top priority is always to provide cheap labor to their donors.

Nice try...

That post would have been an almost burn, if we lived in your revisionist world.

The truth is, you haven't proven or touched upon any proven economic theories regarding race and the past century.

I am not going to live in your post fact world. You either start to engage with real fact, or there's no point.

Where do you want to go?

 

[AEON]

Anyone who believes that Trump will give them their manufacturing jobs back (MAGA!!) rather than realizing technology is replacing them.

Actually, technology is replacing overseas labor (now...eventually all of us I guess). Technology was not the cause for the destruction of the black working class from the 1960s on - the cause was the massive import of cheap labor and then outsourcing for even cheaper labor.

Its funny to hear Democrats fight for a minimum wage, then defend paying a Latino 25 cents a day so we can have cheap lettuce.

 

[BVS]

Actually, technology is replacing overseas labor (now...eventually all of us I guess). Technology was not the cause for the destruction of the black working class from the 1960s on - the cause was the massive import of cheap labor and then outsourcing for even cheaper labor.



Its funny to hear Democrats fight for a minimum wage, then defend paying a Latino 25 cents a day so we can have cheap lettuce.

Please, please, please pick up a history book. A real one. Try one that is pre-internet too, just to get a different perspective.

 

[AEON]

Please, please, please pick up a history book. A real one. Try one that is pre-internet too, just to get a different perspective.

Will these books tell me that massive immigration had ZERO impact on African American wages? Will these books tell me that it is okay to exploit illegal immigrants to have cheap lettuce? Will these books tell me it is okay to use child sweat shops to have decently priced ties?

If whatever books you are reading lead you to support this horrendous treatment of your fellow humans, perhaps you are the one that needs some different books.

 

[BVS]

Will these books tell me that massive immigration had ZERO impact on African American wages? Will these books tell me that it is okay to exploit illegal immigrants to have cheap lettuce? Will these books tell me it is okay to use child sweat shops to have decently priced ties?

If whatever books you are reading lead you to support this horrendous treatment of your fellow humans, perhaps you are the one that needs some different books.

No, but these books will show you that it wasn't just one white nationalist narrative that lead us here. Now from any intellectual stand point that isn't that hard to fare, or is it?

 

[AEON]

Black Racists , lacking that system, can only engage in covert actions whose consequences are usually isolated and minimal.

I'm trying to follow your line of thinking - didn't you say that blacks cannot be racist because racism is about power - and it is white people that have all the power? Did you not say that? So, how can "Black Racists" engage in "covert actions" of racism - if they, buy your definition of "racism", are incapable of any racism at all?

 

[AEON]

No, but these books will show you that it wasn't just one white nationalist narrative that lead us here. Now from any intellectual stand point that isn't that hard to fare, or is it?

I'm not arguing for the displaced working class whites, a cornerstone of the White Nationalist movement. I am arguing that the Democrat-led mass immigration and globalization policies negatively impacted the working class blacks. Do you disagree? Or do you think that that mass immigration and globalization policies were somehow beneficial to the black working class?

 

[BoMac]

Thread

https://twitter.com/andrewsweiss/status/901988098330038272

 

[CMIS]

Or, you can vote him out...

2020? Stuck with him till then, aren't we? And you can vote him out if you still have a constitution then