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Old 09-12-2017, 02:16 PM   #661
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DaveC,

Perhaps you can rephrase, in your own words, what she is trying t convey...?
fuck no. enough with the sealioning. i'm done playing these stupid games.

her post is perfectly clear and needs no rephrasing by anyone else.

if you genuinely can't understand what she's trying to say then you're an illiterate idiot.

but we all know you understood perfectly well and were maliciously twisting both her words and intentions. don't try to pretend now like this is just a whoopsie misunderstanding.

i tried to give you the benefit of the doubt yesterday and see if actually educating you on some of this would have any effect. spent 90 minutes of my spare time creating something informative and relevant and tried to make it interesting so that just maybe we could make a little progress, and all you used it for was to whine about how white people have no history while simultaneously saying how white people have the best history (LMAO), act like a martyr, and make a racist joke.

i'm done trying to give you a shred of respect. take your gaslighting and sealioning and fuck off.
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:35 PM   #662
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These certainly seem like comments made from someone trying to get a rise out people. (aka, a troll)
Oh C'mon - you don't like Monty Python? I was not being serious at all...
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:40 PM   #663
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fuck no. enough with the sealioning. i'm done playing these stupid games.

her post is perfectly clear and needs no rephrasing by anyone else.

if you genuinely can't understand what she's trying to say then you're an illiterate idiot.

but we all know you understood perfectly well and were maliciously twisting both her words and intentions. don't try to pretend now like this is just a whoopsie misunderstanding.

i tried to give you the benefit of the doubt yesterday and see if actually educating you on some of this would have any effect. spent 90 minutes of my spare time creating something informative and relevant and tried to make it interesting so that just maybe we could make a little progress, and all you used it for was to whine about how white people have no history (LMAO), act like a martyr, and make a racist joke.

i'm done trying to give you a shred of respect. take your gaslighting and sealioning and fuck off.
I did like your map...
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Old 09-12-2017, 02:55 PM   #664
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you're an illiterate idiot.
And I'm the troll...

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but we all know you understood perfectly well and were maliciously twisting both her words and intentions. don't try to pretend now like this is just a whoopsie misunderstanding.
How does one shove values like Reason and Humanism down one's throat?

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i tried to give you the benefit of the doubt yesterday and see if actually educating you on some of this would have any effect. spent 90 minutes of my spare time creating something informative and relevant and tried to make it interesting so that just maybe we could make a little progress, and all you used it for was to whine about how white people have no history while simultaneously saying how white people have the best history (LMAO), act like a martyr, and make a racist joke.
Your map showed a Byzantine empire that made it almost 1000 years...the largest decline coming at very end. It no way refuted anything I said earlier. Everything else you said - well - I suppose we could revisit but you're education seems very shaped, and your overly emotional responses are a symptom of that shaping.

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i'm done trying to give you a shred of respect. take your gaslighting and sealioning and fuck off.
thanks for the shred...
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:10 PM   #665
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I suppose we could revisit but you're education seems very shaped, and your overly emotional responses are a symptom of that shaping.



Wow, this is beyond irony. You have to be one of the most self unaware posters this forum has ever seen.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:10 PM   #666
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Also, AEON, it's pretty disappointing and scary for you to downplay colonialism almost entirely. It is arguably the greatest evil committed by human beings in the last 1000 years, the vestiges of which are still shaping geopolitics today. It's absolutely shameful for you to brush it off.
Seriously - I would think that the Holocaust might rank a bit higher...

Colonialism, in some shape or form, predates recorded history. It would seem it's a natural, human endeavor. It just happened that the West became really, really good at it...
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:20 PM   #667
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Seriously - I would think that the Holocaust might rank a bit higher...

Colonialism, in some shape or form, predates recorded history. It would seem it's a natural, human endeavor. It just happened that the West became really, really good at it...
You can argue what is a greater tragedy. More people were slaughtered in the Belgian Congo under Belgian King Leopold II's rule, with his Western philosophical DNA, than in the Holocaust. And that is ONE example. I haven't touched the rest of sub-saharan Africa, not to mention the Americas, the Indian subcontinent, Australia, the Philippines, etc. How ignorant do you have to be of history? If you can go back and say the Dark Ages weren't dark and the Byzantium was fabulous, then we can most certainly discuss the genocide of the American Indian and the various slaughters in African nations, as well as systemic enslaving of African people.

But to you this seems like a "natural, human endeavour." Slaughtering people, taking their natural resources, and enslaving them in chains to transport across the Atlantic, all those things are natural, human endeavours to you I suppose.

I don't even think you're trolling. I think you're like Orgieporgie - articulate enough to come across as reasonable for a split second, with a healthy dose of white supremacist thought simmering beneath.
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:31 PM   #668
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Wow, this is beyond irony. You have to be one of the most self unaware posters this forum has ever seen.
BVS, one day I'm going to take the time and collect these little phrases - you've been saying almost the exact same thing for ten years...

So, how is referring to someone's education as "shaped" any worse or shocking than saying someone's education is "whitewashed?"
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:32 PM   #669
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I don't even think you're trolling. I think you're like Orgieporgie - articulate enough to come across as reasonable for a split second, with a healthy dose of white supremacist thought simmering beneath.
Now THAT was funny. Kuddos
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:35 PM   #670
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And I'm the troll...

How does one shove values like Reason and Humanism down one's throat?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:38 PM   #671
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BVS, one day I'm going to take the time and collect these little phrases - you've been saying almost the exact same thing for ten years...
So you've been doing the same thing for 10 years?



Quote:
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So, how is referring to someone's education as "shaped" any worse or shocking than saying someone's education is "whitewashed?"
Didn't say it was? That's not what irony means.

Alanis? Is that you?
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Old 09-12-2017, 03:46 PM   #672
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Like literally the poster child for this.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:07 PM   #673
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This is getting tiresome, Aeon. If all you're going to do is misinterpret or wholly invent people's arguments and then ask cute little questions based off those inventions, what's the point? Are you simply here to be contrarian?
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:17 PM   #674
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This is getting tiresome, Aeon. If all you're going to do is misinterpret or wholly invent people's arguments and then ask cute little questions based off those inventions, what's the point? Are you simply here to be contrarian?
My apologies. This is your forum. I just don't see many other people posting here these days that have opposing views from the "core" members - so I have found myself on defense more than I usually want to be....

I will look for more common ground in the future.

Thank you for your patience.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:31 PM   #675
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But it's not an opposing view. If you said that don't believe in progressive taxation or government social programs, that would be an opposing view to that which most of us here hold. If you said you believe in totally closed borders and no amnesty for illegal immigrants, that would be an opposing view.

But when you try to pretend that large swaths of history didn't happen, or that others' explanations and/or defenses of said history are only politically correct revisionism, that is not an opposing view, that is a conspiracy theory. It would be like if the people who think the moon landing never happened called their position an opposing view. Or if a presidential administration insisted that its inauguration audience was the biggest ever while the whole world looked at photographs that proved the opposite and then called said statement an alternate fact.

Thanks to DaveC for his post. I'm not nearly as knowledgeable about history as some of you, but I enjoy learning.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:33 PM   #676
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Having opposing views is fine. Heck, even among the left-wing posters here we've had debate (see all the Clinton versus Bernie discussion from last year as a perfect example).

Problem is a lot of the conservatives we've gotten here lately have turned out to act like total trolls, doing nothing more than posting lame memes and treating that as some sort of actual response to somebody's argument, or as a means of mocking somebody's argument. And they say crap just to stir people up, and continue to state things that are blatantly untrue (and which they likely know are blatantly untrue at that, which makes it even worse). At some point, that gets really old and tiresome, and it makes it significantly harder to engage in any sort of proper debate with them. And in an era where our president seems to think it's totally okay to spread falsehoods as though they were fact, and we see people actually buying into the lies he tells, and the danger that comes with those lies...we'd like to not fuel and endorse that kind of behavior if we can help it. As the old saying goes, people are entitled to their own opinions. They are not entitled to their own facts.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:35 PM   #677
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you guys are all too nice
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:47 PM   #678
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I'm sorry if I misinterpreted someone's words to mean that they were elevating non-Western thinkers over Western. It's not a competition--which was my point. I may have read too much into the post.
Someone asked why I believe America is exceptional. I believe it is exceptional in its ideals. The reality of course doesn't always live up to these ideals, and that's where we need to keep working so that everyone can have the benefits of liberty. We are one of the clearest examples of a Constitution where liberty is enshrined as a value. We have failed, and continue to fail, at practicing these ideals, but that is part of the struggle. Those of us who are white need to recognize that the system has historically and presently worked more in our favor than in the favor of other non-white persons.
That being said, I still can't think of anywhere else I'd rather live than in the USA, even under the current blighted administration.
Aeon, I think that Steve Bannon has many intellectually lazy arguments. Yes, we should protect what makes America great, but this doesn't mean that others can't share in the benefits of our society. Immigration is not the cause of our economic woes, and many of the jobs taken by immigrants are those that Americans refuse to do. Secondly, Bannon promotes radical social change to bring about some sort of economic and social revolution. He claims to have a rear-view look at history and sees himself as orchestrating some sort of radical social upheaval through his economic nationalism. Unfortunately, his political views appear to be coded language for racists and those who wish to keep the money in their own pockets. For a supposedly intelligent man, I find Bannon to be woefully naive. He seems to be a singer constantly singing the same tune--America first, economic nationalism, without recognizing the complexities of our current economic struggles. In some ways, I viewed Bernie Sanders as simplistic in the other direction. Simplistic solutions for difficult times can never be a good thing, in my opinion. I view Bannon as dangerous, contrarian, and intellectually bereft. There's nothing wrong with propping up Western values, but there's also no reason why immigrants and others can't share in these same values.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:53 PM   #679
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Another thing about Bannon that makes me squirm is his use of religion as some sort of divisive wedge. He refers often to "Judeo-Christian" values. Again, nothing wrong at all with these values, but why can't a Muslim ascribe to the benefits of allowing your neighbor to pursue liberty in a way they see fit? In that sense, I would see these values as universal to anyone who wants that kind of lifestyle, regardless of their personal creed.
If you want to really squirm, check out Kid Rock's announcement that he may run for Senate and later President. He actually issues several f-bombs to single mothers and others and then decides to roll out Jesus imagery to back up his argument. Disgusting and intellectually insulting on so many levels.
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Old 09-12-2017, 04:56 PM   #680
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My apologies. This is your forum. I just don't see many other people posting here these days that have opposing views from the "core" members - so I have found myself on defense more than I usually want to be....



I will look for more common ground in the future.



Thank you for your patience.


But why did you say you want to exterminate all minorities?
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