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Old 09-05-2017, 09:25 PM   #421
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A great man once said, "Amitram, you are never satisfied with any follow-up (of which I have been quite reliable) so why bother?"


Not fond of the truth, pseudo-bravado; let me ask you, is your skin orange as well?
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:28 PM   #422
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Do you happen to have a source?

https://www.americanprogress.org/iss...ns-of-dollars/

It's an undisputed economic fact that immigration in general helps the economy. It does hurt certain low-wage workers, but it does provide a general boost for everyone else.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:29 PM   #423
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After listening to U2, how have you not understood this one simple truth: Every person on earth has a battle to fight. White men are no different. Unless...you think they actually are different. You seem to be arguing that white men are either superior for their inability to experience hardship, or inferior because their genetics require them to place undue hardship on others. Either way, your attitude seems very racist and misandristic.
This is absolutely true, however it is ignorant of the inherent biases of being white.

I am a white man. I have my own battles, with generalised anxiety disorder, in particular, and firmly agree with you that every person is fighting a battle. Every single person on earth.

But I can categorically state the following:

- I have never been refused a taxi for the colour of my skin
- I have never been overlooked for a job because of the colour of my skin
- I have never had a stranger baulk when I walk around a shopping centre with a hoodie on
- I have never had a person look at me and make an assumption about my character
- I have never had my rights as a human being subject to public debate
- I have no history anywhere in my lineage of being persecuted for the colour of my skin

I could go on. All these things have happened to people of colour I know or have read about. And they continue to happen. I have my own battles, but non-white people have been telling us for many years that on top of their own battles, they also have the things mentioned above happen to them.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:29 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by AEON View Post
After listening to U2, how have you not understood this one simple truth: Every person on earth has a battle to fight. White men are no different. Unless...you think they actually are different. You seem to be arguing that white men are either superior for their inability to experience hardship, or inferior because their genetics require them to place undue hardship on others. Either way, your attitude seems very racist and misandristic.
Oh, for the love of all that is good, will you stop with this nonsense already? If this is part of your "devil's advocate" thing, just drop it already, it's not cute or funny.

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Read today that the US would lose $400 billion in GDP if DACA is rescinded. This isn't about making the country a better place. This is about racism.
Agreed.

I'm also getting a kick out of how this administration's deciding to fuck over immigrants at the very same time we're hearing all these wonderful stories of Mexico doing their part to help victims of Harvey.

But yeah. We totally need to build a wall to protect ourselves from them. Sure .
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:30 PM   #425
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When you're not ignoring her questions, you're either completely misunderstanding her post, or completely twisting to pretend she's saying something else(kinda your go to move around here).

And now your "generous" move proves once again you're not understanding this conversation.

Why is it so difficult for you to honestly engage? I'm serious. It seems impossible for you to do so, but then you blame the other side for not listening to your tabloid sources, your twisting, and your lying.

I guarantee you, you'd actually have discussion in here if you were genuine.
I quote a source such as Huffington Post or NYT, you ignore it. I throw in a whole cornucopia of sources - as proof there is a lot of discussion on the topic - you simple ignore them all because a few of the sources are right leaning (and those do include sources)

The point was, and still is, there is controversy around Europe's tightening of Free Speech.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:32 PM   #426
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Oh, for the love of all that is good, will you stop with this nonsense already? If this is part of your "devil's advocate" thing, just drop it already, it's not cute or funny.
But it is logical. I'm assuming that still has a place here?
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:36 PM   #427
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I quote a source such as Huffington Post or NYT, you ignore it. I throw in a whole cornucopia of sources - as proof there is a lot of discussion on the topic - you simple ignore them all because a few of the sources are right leaning (and those do include sources)



The point was, and still is, there is controversy around Europe's tightening of Free Speech.


But it's not "simply expressing concern" as you suggested. Words and facts matter.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:38 PM   #428
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Either way, your attitude seems very racist and misandristic.
Babydoll make sure you show that one to your white husband.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:39 PM   #429
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Words and facts matter.

In Trump's America, they don't. And this explains why we are here and why we are so divided
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:52 PM   #430
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Not fond of the truth, pseudo-bravado; let me ask you, is your skin orange as well?


That's enough personal jabs, BVS.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:57 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
This is absolutely true, however it is ignorant of the inherent biases of being white.

I am a white man. I have my own battles, with generalised anxiety disorder, in particular, and firmly agree with you that every person is fighting a battle. Every single person on earth.

But I can categorically state the following:

- I have never been refused a taxi for the colour of my skin
- I have never been overlooked for a job because of the colour of my skin
- I have never had a stranger baulk when I walk around a shopping centre with a hoodie on
- I have never had a person look at me and make an assumption about my character
- I have never had my rights as a human being subject to public debate
- I have no history anywhere in my lineage of being persecuted for the colour of my skin

I could go on. All these things have happened to people of colour I know or have read about. And they continue to happen. I have my own battles, but non-white people have been telling us for many years that on top of their own battles, they also have the things mentioned above happen to them.

Thoughts?
That was a great response. Thank you. My only real reply to your list is that I personally try to treat everybody I meet with dignity and respect.

Additionally, if I am to accept the problems of white culture - I should also be free to express the benefits of it without being considered a neo-Nazi. White men should not be raised to feel a sense of shame simply for being white men - because that is what will lead to the very reactionary response we truly don't want.
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Old 09-05-2017, 09:59 PM   #432
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A great man once said, "Amitram, you are never satisfied with any follow-up (of which I have been quite reliable) so why bother?"


That's your response?

I know you're basically taking on all comers here, but anitram made some extremely valid points with regards to your sources and what they're actually saying, and dismissing them with a cute little jab isn't a good look if you're here looking to take part in good faith.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:00 PM   #433
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I'm also getting a kick out of how this administration's deciding to fuck over immigrants at the very same time we're hearing all these wonderful stories of Mexico doing their part to help victims of Harvey.



But yeah. We totally need to build a wall to protect ourselves from them. Sure .


There was a story on CBS News tonight about a Dreamer who drove 120 miles to Houston so he could rescue people with his boat and a friend. He drowned after hitting a bridge which caused his boat to capsize. Dude was a hero in every way and yet Trump and Sessions would rather he not be in the country. It's so sad
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:16 PM   #434
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That was a great response. Thank you. My only real reply to your list is that I personally try to treat everybody I meet with dignity and respect.

Additionally, if I am to accept the problems of white culture - I should also be free to express the benefits of it without being considered a neo-Nazi. White men should not be raised to feel a sense of shame simply for being white men - because that is what will lead to the very reactionary response we truly don't want.


No one has ever considered you a neo-Nazi in here.

This is why you're considered a liar, or at the very least someone who has to constantly twist.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:22 PM   #435
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That's enough personal jabs, BVS.


He accused me(and others) of saying a race was genetically inferior, he has flat out lied, and he arrogantly referred to himself as a "great man", but I get called out for personal jabs?



Oh, you mean the comparing him to Trump?! Fair point. My apologies.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:34 PM   #436
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I'm assuming others have no problem with this "progressive" source. (I actually do not, because I understand you are agreeing with their assessment and adding their researched, professional opinion to back it up. While I may disagree with an opinion writer's conclusions, they usually base their argument on actual data.)

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It's an undisputed economic fact that immigration in general helps the economy.
There is plenty of dispute out there...


Quote:
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It does hurt certain low-wage workers, but it does provide a general boost for everyone else.
Illegal immigration severely impacts construction, landscaping, and interior remodeling. Not exactly high end pay, but certainly decent.
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:49 PM   #437
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That's your response?

I know you're basically taking on all comers here, but anitram made some extremely valid points with regards to your sources and what they're actually saying, and dismissing them with a cute little jab isn't a good look if you're here looking to take part in good faith.
Fair enough. I'll take another look and respond. Although I do think that I proved the following points by simply posting those sources after a google search:

1) limiting Free Speech in Europe is controversial
2) I was not making up the fact that it was controversial
3) there is plenty of discussion on the topic (it was implied that I was merely making up the fact that there are concerns about "Hate Speech" including questioning immigration policy - I offered a direct quote)
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:57 PM   #438
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Illegal immigration severely impacts construction, landscaping, and interior remodeling. Not exactly high end pay, but certainly decent.

Just curious; do you really believe that the average Trump supporter is willing to pay the increase in lettuce, coffee, labor, hotels, going out to dinner, or their own housing? You keep pretending that this is some dream of the elite but forget that the cost of everything in your rust belt dream will increase, that Trump's ties will cost you twice as much, and Walmart will be considered Macy's.

You really think it's just landscaping and construction?

So the average American dry waller gets to keep his job, but everything arounds them goes up in costs and his wages will not change, what does he do? None of you have thought this through on an economic or moral lens.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:02 PM   #439
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US Politics III

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But it is logical. I'm assuming that still has a place here?




I admire your indefatigabity, but do you really think others are the ones having issues with logic in this thread?

The martyr act isn't working.
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Old 09-05-2017, 11:04 PM   #440
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There was a story on CBS News tonight about a Dreamer who drove 120 miles to Houston so he could rescue people with his boat and a friend. He drowned after hitting a bridge which caused his boat to capsize. Dude was a hero in every way and yet Trump and Sessions would rather he not be in the country. It's so sad
Oh, man, how tragic. Much respect for him going so far and risking his life to help others, though-here's hoping his legacy and efforts can live on somehow.
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