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Old 08-31-2017, 02:27 AM   #201
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I think white supremacists' lives matter, in the theological and humanistic sense. But that doesn't mean that they might not need to be opposed forcefully, should the situation warrant. I certainly hope not, but peace-loving people who respect the laws of liberty do have the right to protect themselves and their way of life.
I agree, everyone in this country (on earth actually...) has a right to self-defense.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:41 AM   #202
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They are only a problem for those who are/wish to protect fascists.
Define fascism for us...I think it is only fair that everyone knows what Vlad's definition of fascism is...so that those protecting free speech (including fascist free speech) are not surprised when they are whacked across the head with a bike lock or drenched in urine....
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:46 AM   #203
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Let's pretend that we all accept this as fact for a second.
Instead of a wall...is it okay if we call "controlling our borders" a fence? (a wall sounds so GoT...and those are white walkers...) Occasionally (not often) I'm with her....she actually claims President Bush was too weak on controlling the border! She did have her moments...this is one of them. Agreed?



Donald Trump says part of promised border wall could be fence
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:02 AM   #204
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I honestly don't think anyone took him serious on who would pay for it. They just want it completed. Just like the Clintons. I don't see why you have a problem with this.

Yes, people are still taking it seriously. And where did the Clintons say that?
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Yes, indeed it has been suggested. The very concept of this unseen force of white privilege relies on this to be true. That white people, at a minimum, are passively racist.
False. Completely false.
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Old 08-31-2017, 06:09 AM   #205
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Instead of a wall...is it okay if we call "controlling our borders"


They are not the same. I was wondering if you didn't get that or if you were just a liar.
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Old 08-31-2017, 07:25 AM   #206
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Yes, indeed it has been suggested. The very concept of this unseen force of white privilege relies on this to be true. That white people, at a minimum, are passively racist.
Wrong.

And hey, I'm with you on the idea that the phrase "white privilege" doesn't play well with the poor working class whites of middle America, and that the left needs to stop tossing it around in national elections and come up with another way of getting their point across.

But just because I think that the optics of the phrase hurts the left doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And if anything, the idea that the optics of the phrase hurts the left is an example of white privilege, especially when you consider the vile, hateful things that have been coming from the right.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:52 AM   #207
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Define fascism for us...I think it is only fair that everyone knows what Vlad's definition of fascism is...so that those protecting free speech (including fascist free speech) are not surprised when they are whacked across the head with a bike lock or drenched in urine....


Shall we tally up all the incidents of white supremacist violence against minorities? Do you really think that antifa even comes anywhere close?
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:24 AM   #208
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I see the antifa as a reaction to fascists and white supremacists. If everyone was treated equally, regardless of colour, creed, race or religion, and if people stop seeing equality as a loss of their rights or status in society, then the need for a resistance group like the antifa will no longer be there.
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:35 AM   #209
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I'm sure AEON thought that Nelson Mandela and his supporters were terrorists like antifa. After all, they were violent. And there was violence on BOTH SIDES.

With respect to the wall, I don't understand, AEON, why you'd make an idiot of yourself contorting into a pretzel arguing on behalf of a piece of shit like Trump. Really quite bizarre.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:25 AM   #210
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I see the antifa as a reaction to fascists and white supremacists. If everyone was treated equally, regardless of colour, creed, race or religion, and if people stop seeing equality as a loss of their rights or status in society, then the need for a resistance group like the antifa will no longer be there.
Indeed, that's exactly why they exist. Antifa aim to protect the vulnerable from those who seek to harm them.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:32 AM   #211
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You're not so bad, Vlad.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:33 AM   #212
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They are not the same. I was wondering if you didn't get that or if you were just a liar.
So if Trump calls the wall a "fence" - and the US pays for this fence - then you are okay with it?
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:37 AM   #213
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Shall we tally up all the incidents of white supremacist violence against minorities? Do you really think that antifa even comes anywhere close?
Recent or past? And what is your definition of a white supremacist? Anyone who voted for Trump?

If I tossed antifa into the larger group we call the Left, which would include Bolsheviks, then it is a no brainer - since the Left murdered over 100 million people since 1917.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:39 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
I'm sure AEON thought that Nelson Mandela and his supporters were terrorists like antifa. After all, they were violent. And there was violence on BOTH SIDES.

With respect to the wall, I don't understand, AEON, why you'd make an idiot of yourself contorting into a pretzel arguing on behalf of a piece of shit like Trump. Really quite bizarre.
I wonder how peaceful and loving South Africa is these days...
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:41 AM   #215
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Recent or past? And what is your definition of a white supremacist? Anyone who voted for Trump?

If I tossed antifa into the larger group we call the Left, which would include Bolsheviks, then it is a no brainer - since the Left murdered over 100 million people since 1917.
Why would you do that? I don't think anyone in here is tossing white supremacists and neo-Nazis in with "the right". Stop brushing people who lean one way with the same brush.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:41 AM   #216
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Indeed, that's exactly why they exist. Antifa aim to protect the vulnerable from those who seek to harm them.
Isn't that the same reason the Klan claims to exist? And like the Klan, these "noble" protectors need to hide their faces...
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:42 AM   #217
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So if Trump calls the wall a "fence" - and the US pays for this fence - then you are okay with it?


Still contorting...
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:53 AM   #218
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Why would you do that? I don't think anyone in here is tossing white supremacists and neo-Nazis in with "the right". Stop brushing people who lean one way with the same brush.
That's exactly my point. Antifa attacked Trump supporters for wearing MAGA hats. They attacked a campus for hosting Milo (a gay Jewish man - not your garden variety Nazi). You say that antifa only exists to wipe out this bucket of so-called neo-nazis, and then dump anybody that doesn't agree with you (or votes conservative) into that bucket.

About 63 million US citizens voted for Trump - are they all racists? Are they all deserving of whatever violence antifa seems necessary to protect the non-Trump voters?

I fail to see how antifa is not the Left's modern equivalent of the Klan.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:02 AM   #219
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Still contorting...
How so? Did Bill Clinton not expand the wall/fence? Did Hillary Clinton not support the wall/fence as a senator and then as a presidential candidate? Are you suggesting that these candidates did not support securing our border with Mexico with physical "barriers"?

Also, please review these clips again and point out where these two equate border security with racism:



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Old 08-31-2017, 11:13 AM   #220
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How so? Did Bill Clinton not expand the wall/fence? Did Hillary Clinton not support the wall/fence as a senator and then as a presidential candidate? Are you suggesting that these candidates did not support securing our border with Mexico with physical "barriers"



Also, please review these clips again and point out where these two equate border security with racism:









Border security does not equal racism.

No one has ever made that claim. You're dancing with a strawman.

Building a wall, and building your campaign around a wall doesn't make you a racist, it makes you an idiot. It shows you don't understand the issue. Chanting "build that wall" makes you even a bigger idiot and shows you know even less about the issue.

Using people's fear and building fear of brown people is racist. Throwing all Mexicans into one basket regardless if citizen or not is racist.

Your attempt at equivalency is sad.
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