US Politics II

[Vlad n U 2]

And how is that NOT a racist statement?

inb4 reverse racism!1!!!

 

[AEON]

So, basically, you're so annoyed by the identity-obsessed Left that you're willing to offer comfort and understanding to Nazis and white supremacists who marched through the streets holding torches and screaming "blood and soil" and viciously anti-Semetic things?

Just how hard is it to be you?

Laws (especially the laws of logic) must apply to ALL - or they are not laws at all. If racism is defined by using blanket statements about an ethnicity, then you should not be surprised that others call you racist when you use blanket statements about white ethnicity. If systemic racism and ethno-privilege is defined by giving one race preferential treatment over another (legally) - well, then don't be surprised when you get called out for doing exactly that. If it is racist to secure the border - then it is racist to have nations. If it is racist to have nations - then is racist to have a national identify (no more Finnish, no more Japanese, no more Mexicans...just one happy non-racist beige people....one master race..wait, that sounds familiar...)

 

[AEON]

inb4 reverse racism!1!!!

I see what you're doing, the old reverse logic trick. You take logic, and do the opposite. Well played, Sir (or ma'am...no offense, I forgot how you identified...)

 

[AEON]

What we're seeing here, in AEON's posts and in the US in general with Trump, is the rise of white identity.

That NYT article was obviously written to someone who has not been on the Internet the last five years outside Huffington Post. Calling out the Left for their hypocrisy is a national pastime with these folks (the Internet you don't see). Just look at this forum (the Internet you do see). Almost all of the name calling and personal attacks are from the Left.

The Left will debate a possibly racist statement by Trump until the next Haley's comet - while completely ignoring the blatant racism and violence perpetrated by their political brethren. Tolerance is Intolerance. Love is Hate. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength...

Now THAT is worth fighting against....

 

[AEON]

Why are you making ISIS comparisons?

One wonders...

http://imgur.com/a/prg4N

 

[nbelcik]

And how is that NOT a racist statement?

Because white people aren't systematically oppressed and don't face oppression in any way

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You make excuses for ANTIFA - andI don't remember you being too upset about ISIS systematically tossing the gays off buildings to their death. Or the cops murdered by BLM snipers. Or the mentally handicapped white kid tortured and forced to drink from a filthy toilet bowl by "Anti Trump" activists...or the Liberal activist mass shooting that almost killed Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.)....Seth Rich...

Ohhh and here we have it... Seth Rich.

You have truly gone off the deep end of the GOP swimming pool if you believe the Seth Rich garbage. It's all so much clearer now.

You are right in one way... we've grown numb to all of the mass shootings that each one doesn't bring the same level of outrage as it used to. Perhaps after watching toddlers get murdered and having the cowards in Congress do nothing in response may do that to you.

 

[BVS]

White people exploited every other system on Earth, that's how they got to be so successful. By killing and raping. This created massive disparities between white civilization and other civilizations and the disparities of the past still exist today.

This doesn't help any in the conversation. Aeon is right about one thing, if you want to have a conversation about race, you can't go about with such broad strokes about any race, even if it's your own.

 

[BVS]

Seth Rich? Well now you've gone and exposed yourself. Bringing up 60's Dems, Clinton "wall" speech, white nationalist sympathies... you're just another ideology over fact, party over country republican. Sad

 

[Diemen]

And lets say I WAS a fascist sympathizer, so what? At least it would add some needed energy into this dying forum...

Uh... what??

 

[shineon]

Seth Rich? Well now you've gone and exposed yourself. Bringing up 60's Dems, Clinton "wall" speech, white nationalist sympathies... you're just another ideology over fact, party over country republican. Sad

Aeon, you should call out hypocrisy till Kingdom come if that's what gets you off, but you should also have the balls to call a turd a turd if it's smelling to high heaven. And truly that's what the white supremacist movement is. Apart from pointing out the idiocy of isolated incidences which border on the absurd (I mentioned the kicking and spitting on the Confederate statue), it is intellectual indefensible to defend white culture against its attackers, and you're smart enough to know that. Do you, as a white male I'm assuming, feel discriminated against? If you're American, do you feel as though you are somehow marginalized?
You made the point (I think) that America is exceptional. I agree. But the reason why it's exceptional has nothing to do with race. We were founded by white males, true, but anyone can buy into the "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" credo and let their neighbors do the same. Asian, white, Muslim, Jew, black....this ideology has no Chosen People.
There is no reason for any sane person to base their ideology on their whiteness or to defend white culture. If blacks or other groups do that, it is because they are banding together to own their power and help one another advance after centuries of discrimination. They always welcome sympathizers of any hue who want to assist them as they attempt to participate in the national conversation and claim a place in this country with its attendant liberties.
Perhaps a Nazi sympathizer gets his start from some relatively benign position. He for example likes the smartness of the uniform or the symmetry of the march? Perhaps this person feels powerless in some way in his/her own life and the movement gives him a sense of control and power. You may be a good person who is flirting with a movement that is at its core base and intellectual corrupt. If so, get out. If not, and you truly do believe whites and white culture are superior, at least have the balls to admit it. This is an anonymous forum. You are offending our intellectual sensibilities with your logical fallacies and half truths in service of the indefensible. Worse, you are selling yourself short.

 

[Diemen]

You make excuses for ANTIFA - andI don't remember you being too upset about ISIS systematically tossing the gays off buildings to their death. Or the cops murdered by BLM snipers. Or the mentally handicapped white kid tortured and forced to drink from a filthy toilet bowl by "Anti Trump" activists...or the Liberal activist mass shooting that almost killed Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.)....Seth Rich...

Antifa and BLM are in no way even close to the same level of hateful ideology as fascists and nazis. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone here is quite against ISIS, and the congressional baseball shooter, and anyone who would force a mentally handicapped person to drink out of a toilet bowl, so you are once again grasping at straws and inventing positions that no one here actually claims.

Let me be clear: if you are a white nationalist (which is really just a new PC term for white supremacist), or if you are indeed a Nazi/fascist sympathizer, you are not welcome in this forum.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Uh... what??

No no no, he brings a valid point.

We need some pizzaz here. A dose of real life. Even if real life sucks.

Though he sort of did just suggest that maaaaybe he's a fascist sympathiser.

 

[shineon]

It's an interesting question: can a Nazi sympathizer be redeemed? Theoretically, the answer is yes, of course he could be. However, most of the perpetrators of the Holocaust went to their graves denying any culpability. It's apparently a hard road to walk. I think what it would require most is a strong sense of humility. Aeon, we are with you if you want us to be.
Since this is a U2 forum, I'm curious....what is your favorite U2 song and why?

 

[anitram]

. Same with gender - there is no gender. So, if there is no gender - how can there be gender inequality? How can there be a gender pay gap if there is no gender? It is the hypocrisy that I like to call out....

What the hell are you even talking about?

And the Seth Rich thing is pretty awesome, I bet you spend a lot of time on the Donald subreddit.

 

[Irvine511]

That NYT article was obviously written to someone who has not been on the Internet the last five years outside Huffington Post. Calling out the Left for their hypocrisy is a national pastime with these folks (the Internet you don't see). Just look at this forum (the Internet you do see). Almost all of the name calling and personal attacks are from the Left.



The Left will debate a possibly racist statement by Trump until the next Haley's comet - while completely ignoring the blatant racism and violence perpetrated by their political brethren. Tolerance is Intolerance. Love is Hate. War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength...



Now THAT is worth fighting against....

What are you even talking about?

What blatant racism and violence?

 

[IWasBored]

What the hell are you even talking about?



.

Isn't that how TERFs argue that trans women aren't women? Boy does like
his fringe hate groups.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

It's an interesting question: can a Nazi sympathizer be redeemed? Theoretically, the answer is yes, of course he could be. However, most of the perpetrators of the Holocaust went to their graves denying any culpability. It's apparently a hard road to walk. I think what it would require most is a strong sense of humility. Aeon, we are with you if you want us to be.
Since this is a U2 forum, I'm curious....what is your favorite U2 song and why?

If they renounce their Nazi sympathising and act towards rectifying it in some meaningful way (educating others in danger of going down that path etc.), then I think that goes a way towards redemption.

 

[IWasBored]

What are you even talking about?

What blatant racism and violence?

That's the new meme, bro. You paste quotes from 1984 onto pictures of R E Lee statues so you can say, "See the real tyrants are the ones who won't accept my right to hate anyone who isn't white! Aren't I so clever throwing your leftist books back at you!"

 

[Irvine511]

That's the new meme, bro. You paste quotes from 1984 onto pictures of R E Lee statues so you can say, "See the real tyrants are the ones who won't accept my right to hate anyone who isn't white! Aren't I so clever throwing your leftist books back at you!"

You're absolutely right. It's the real upside-down, where equality is oppression and the inability to discriminate is discrimination.

I saw someone call ANTIFA "book burners" -- like, who burned all those books back in the 30s, bro?

 

[IWasBored]

You're absolutely right. It's the real upside-down, where equality is oppression and the inability to discriminate is discrimination.

I saw someone call ANTIFA "book burners" -- like, who burned all those books back in the 30s, bro?

The same people who want to be granted the 'safe space' to be Nazis...aren't they the same ones who spent the entire lead up to the election criticizing everyone who wanted safe places to be [everyone else]? It's twistier than that double sided string cheese.


Wait, for real?

 

[BEAL]

Are there any non conspiracy theory conservatives around anymore? Miss the days of at least trying to debate trickle down economics versus child sex rings in non existent basements of pizza parlors.

Now we have to legitimize neo nazis as a discrimination group?

 

[AEON]

This doesn't help any in the conversation. Aeon is right about one thing, if you want to have a conversation about race, you can't go about with such broad strokes about any race, even if it's your own.

Thank you. At least we agree on this.

 

[corianderstem]

I get that - my brother will frequently call me out if I post something on FB that's a broad generalization (and he's usually right to do so).

But if you're talking about actual history, isn't speaking in generalizations kind of a given?

Or are we supposed to talk about how this group of 375,739,736,736 Europeans colonized and conquered and enslaved and raped other lands between 1285 and 1986 ... but hey, don't forget that there were 395,726,957,826 Europeans who did not!

Columbus and his men brought smallpox and genocide to the New World! .. except for Steve. Steve was a good guy who just wanted to travel, man. No smallpox or killing for him.

 

[AEON]

Seth Rich? Well now you've gone and exposed yourself. Bringing up 60's Dems, Clinton "wall" speech, white nationalist sympathies... you're just another ideology over fact, party over country republican. Sad

I slipped that I'm near the end as a bit of a joke. I recall much love for wikileaks when the leaks were all damaging to then President Bush. Whether Seth Rich was murdered by the DNA or not for approaching wikileaks, we will probably never know. But his name represents the complete failure of the Russian-Trump conspiracy theories...

 

[AEON]

Aeon, you should call out hypocrisy till Kingdom come if that's what gets you off, but you should also have the balls to call a turd a turd if it's smelling to high heaven. And truly that's what the white supremacist movement is. Apart from pointing out the idiocy of isolated incidences which border on the absurd (I mentioned the kicking and spitting on the Confederate statue), it is intellectual indefensible to defend white culture against its attackers, and you're smart enough to know that. Do you, as a white male I'm assuming, feel discriminated against? If you're American, do you feel as though you are somehow marginalized?
You made the point (I think) that America is exceptional. I agree. But the reason why it's exceptional has nothing to do with race. We were founded by white males, true, but anyone can buy into the "life, liberty, pursuit of happiness" credo and let their neighbors do the same. Asian, white, Muslim, Jew, black....this ideology has no Chosen People.
There is no reason for any sane person to base their ideology on their whiteness or to defend white culture. If blacks or other groups do that, it is because they are banding together to own their power and help one another advance after centuries of discrimination. They always welcome sympathizers of any hue who want to assist them as they attempt to participate in the national conversation and claim a place in this country with its attendant liberties.
Perhaps a Nazi sympathizer gets his start from some relatively benign position. He for example likes the smartness of the uniform or the symmetry of the march? Perhaps this person feels powerless in some way in his/her own life and the movement gives him a sense of control and power. You may be a good person who is flirting with a movement that is at its core base and intellectual corrupt. If so, get out. If not, and you truly do believe whites and white culture are superior, at least have the balls to admit it. This is an anonymous forum. You are offending our intellectual sensibilities with your logical fallacies and half truths in service of the indefensible. Worse, you are selling yourself short.

Then how does one guy killing one person with a Dodge represent the so called "white identity" movement? I do not recall anyone defending that (other than a few who think the dude was trying to escape a mob, but we're not defending the act if it was intentional). Yet, ANTIFA is routinely violent. Smashing windows. Burning cars. Throwing rocks at police...

 

[AEON]

Antifa and BLM are in no way even close to the same level of hateful ideology as fascists and nazis. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone here is quite against ISIS, and the congressional baseball shooter, and anyone who would force a mentally handicapped person to drink out of a toilet bowl, so you are once again grasping at straws and inventing positions that no one here actually claims.

Let me be clear: if you are a white nationalist (which is really just a new PC term for white supremacist), or if you are indeed a Nazi/fascist sympathizer, you are not welcome in this forum.

I am a free speech advocate, I am not a Nazi. I would like to understand more about this world and the people who live in it. I can agree with just about any group on several points, that does not make me a sympathesizer.

 

[AEON]

It's an interesting question: can a Nazi sympathizer be redeemed? Theoretically, the answer is yes, of course he could be. However, most of the perpetrators of the Holocaust went to their graves denying any culpability. It's apparently a hard road to walk. I think what it would require most is a strong sense of humility. Aeon, we are with you if you want us to be.
Since this is a U2 forum, I'm curious....what is your favorite U2 song and why?

Ultraviolet...because the last 30 seconds are U2 at their peak

 

[AEON]

I get that - my brother will frequently call me out if I post something on FB that's a broad generalization (and he's usually right to do so).

But if you're talking about actual history, isn't speaking in generalizations kind of a given?

Or are we supposed to talk about how this group of 375,739,736,736 Europeans colonized and conquered and enslaved and raped other lands between 1285 and 1986 ... but hey, don't forget that there were 395,726,957,826 Europeans who did not!

Columbus and his men brought smallpox and genocide to the New World! .. except for Steve. Steve was a good guy who just wanted to travel, man. No smallpox or killing for him.

And other races did NOT do these things? Did the Mayans not do these things? The Arabs? The Egyptians? The Mongolians? The Japanese?

 

[corianderstem]

Sure, but why the need to say "yeah, but others did it too"? We are generally talking about the US and societal issues here.

Mongolians conquering other lands doesn't have much to do with the conversation. But Europeans, and the European slave trade, have the history that helped get us to where we are today, for better or worse.