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Old 08-24-2017, 08:54 PM   #1021
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I thought I did , I don't think those are examples of racism any more than you could pull ANY random politician and claim racism. George Wallace and the other Democrats of the past - yes, overt racism. Those examples you posted are not examples of racism - they are too vague.
Being sued and fined by the government for discriminatory practices isn't proof of discrimination?
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:09 PM   #1022
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Funny...

http://www.u2interference.com/forums....php?p=7695110


... you didn't want to give the same sympathies to Muslims that you give to white nationalists and neo-nazis
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:44 PM   #1023
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These last few pages...holy...

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If people want the right to burn the American flag, then they have to accept the rights of those who want to wave a Confederate flag (or rainbow flag, or hammer and sickle flag...etc).
Yes, because the Confederate flag is totally the same thing as waving a rainbow flag or an American flag .

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It is really only possible to discuss the qualities of another based on their words or actions. We shouldn't pretend we can read people's minds and just assume racism. Additionally, let's say his private thoughts ARE racist? So what? Are we now the thought police?

People are free to think what they want. It is only in their words and their actions can we truly assess them (and even that is limited).
And Headache posted an article describing his racist actions a number of pages back. I also noted his hiring people for his administration that are racist and xenophobic. Why hire them if he doesn't plan to use them to help carry out his views?

Here's the thing, generally, people who hold those kinds of racist and xenophobic views do not stop at just believing that stuff. It always comes through in their actions as well. My grandma, for instance, spouted racist beliefs, and she backed them up by closing the curtains when my dad brought home a black friend from school once, so that none of the neighbors would see.

Nazis and white nationalists tend to have a big history of committing violence. The guy who rammed his car into the crowd in Charlottesville also had a history of domestic violence. They're not content to just spout their views, they want to make them a reality. There's a reason they're often armed with a boatload of guns, after all.

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Many people were insinuating Obama wasn't born in the US. Hillary Clinton was one of them - is she also racist?
Ah, yes, that old nonsense rumor. That's been proven to be completely false. So try again.

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True - BLM is far more violent and has been given a virtual free-pass from the press and the last Administration.
Nope. Try again.

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President Bill Clinton proposed such a wall to a standing ovation from congress, is he a racist?
I would need to see Clinton's stance on the issue, 'cause I have no memory of that.

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I read it and literally laughed out loud when I saw it was locked. Thus proving the OPs point...
It got locked because the particular poster who started the thread has a history of posting controversial things and up and leaving without continuing the conversation, and engaging other posters in honest debate. Not because of the political views in and of themselves. If that poster actually wanted to try engaging in a proper debate for once, we'd be all for it.

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No, my point was this place hasn't been "friendly" to any Conservative POV. Eventually - the Conservatives leave because it simply gets annoying.
From what I've seen of some of the recent conservatives who've left, they left because they turned into nothing but trolls who responded to debates with stupid memes and saying ridiculous things to intentionally try and rile people up, instead of actually trying to have a mature conversation. One of the recent conservatives who hung around here was outed as a white nationalist after being kicked out for trolling behavior.

I loved having conservatives like nbcrusader and 80sU2isBest here, because they actually participated in the debates and treated people with respect. Sadly, we're not getting that with many of the conservatives who've come here in recent times.

Add in the fact that people are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts, so when people come here and keep spouting things that are demonstrably untrue, after a while, people get tired of having to put up with that. Knowingly spreading ignorant and misinformed views can be very dangerous.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:59 PM   #1024
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No, Clinton did not propose a wall like Trump, this is just another bs tactic to divert the conversation.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:04 PM   #1025
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Is that pic from Charlottesville? Man , that escalated quickly!


The people marching in Charlottesville want this to happen again. It is the end goal of their ideology. It is why society should join together to crush any one who advocates their ideology. This ideology cannot be allowed to spread. We learned lessons from the Holocaust and we can't let it happen again.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:33 PM   #1026
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I would need to see Clinton's stance on the issue, 'cause I have no memory of that.
Bill Clinton could sue Trump for stealing this speech

https://youtu.be/omfCBNVWwzI
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:36 PM   #1027
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The people marching in Charlottesville want this to happen again. It is the end goal of their ideology. It is why society should join together to crush any one who advocates their ideology. This ideology cannot be allowed to spread. We learned lessons from the Holocaust and we can't let it happen again.
This is the same Slippery Slope logical fallacy the Right used against gay marriage.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:38 PM   #1028
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Funny...

Egyptian Violence - Page 2 - U2 Feedback


... you didn't want to give the same sympathies to Muslims that you give to white nationalists and neo-nazis
Don't know about you, but sounds like a pretty clear indication of being a fascist sympathiser but without the 'guts' to outright admit it.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:40 PM   #1029
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No, Clinton did not propose a wall like Trump, this is just another bs tactic to divert the conversation.
Wrong.

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Old 08-24-2017, 10:43 PM   #1030
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Don't know about you, but sounds like a pretty clear indication of being a fascist sympathiser but without the 'guts' to outright admit it.
Yeah - because the Jihad issue is improved so much since I posted that.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:46 PM   #1031
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Can you please point to the second where he mentioned a wall?
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:48 PM   #1032
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Don't know about you, but sounds like a pretty clear indication of being a fascist sympathiser but without the 'guts' to outright admit it.
And lets say I WAS a fascist sympathizer, so what? At least it would add some needed energy into this dying forum...
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:58 PM   #1033
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And lets say I WAS a fascist sympathizer, so what? At least it would add some needed energy into this dying forum...


So, that's your only point? Facts don't mean shit, right?
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:59 PM   #1034
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Can you please point to the second where he mentioned a wall?
So, are you good with everything else he said? He certainly implied a wall with the "Secure border" rhetoric - and then he expanded the already existing wall (so, no need to start fresh so to speak). This speech is certainly filled with same Trump anti-ILLEGAL-immigration...

In fact, even Huffington Post wrote about it recently:

Quote:
In 1990, a 14-mile, triple-deep fence was constructed in San Diego. In 1996, the IIRIRA authorized the federal government to build additional barriers. And in 2006, the Secure Fence Act was passed, authorizing completion of still more. Today, there are 700 miles of fencing along the southern border.

Among those voting in favor of the Secure Fence Act was Hillary Clinton, then the junior Democratic Senator from New York. Among those voting against was Bernie Sanders, then a member of the House of Representatives from Vermont.
Source:
The Huffington Post
Bill Clinton Laid Groundwork For Trump’s Ugly Immigration Policies
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:01 PM   #1035
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So, that's your only point? Facts don't mean shit, right?
Do you not realize the "other" side says the SAME EXACT THING? That's why I don't participate much there either. Boring.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:02 PM   #1036
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And lets say I WAS a fascist sympathizer, so what? At least it would add some needed energy into this dying forum...
Oh for fuck's sake, there's already enough disagreement between the leftists and centrists on this subforum (and it's a healthier discourse anyway) without needing someone to make excuses for literal fascist scum here.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:15 PM   #1037
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Do you not realize the "other" side says the SAME EXACT THING? That's why I don't participate much there either. Boring.


But you do realize there are measurables? Right?!
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:16 PM   #1038
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And lets say I WAS a fascist sympathizer, so what? At least it would add some needed energy into this dying forum...
Aeon, I'm going to address you from the perspective of one who would run, not walk, from a gathering of individuals spitting and kicking a statue of a Confederate general. So I am not a left-wing sympathizer by any means.
Here's my observation: You are twisting yourself into mental knots in order to not see the racism inherent in the Trump phenomenon. Most racism in modern times is more subtle than in times past. People who espouse these words use coded language so as to communicate their message as effectively as possible. Sure, you can assume good motives, but if you look at their communication patterns over a period of time, a marked pattern reveals itself. The common message or theme communicated to the marginalized is "you don't belong; you are not one of us." The totality of the birther movement against Obama could be described as that tactic taken to the level of obsession by Trump and his ilk. It takes a great deal of mental gyration to miss this rather blatant message.
You seem to want to communicate from the standpoint of a dispassionate observer. You value intellectualism and like to view yourself as a rationalist and an empirical thinker. However, your blind spot seems to be that you want to identify yourself as an outsider to this forum as well as a person of conservative values. There's nothing wrong with that except when it forces you to blind yourself to empirical truths that are staring you in the face. You simply cannot take a position of willful ignorance and then proceed to argue it without sacrificing your personal integrity. Steve Bannon plays this game with himself as well. He tries to promote the idea of economic nationalism without recognizing the inherent racism of most of his base. I'm not saying that there aren't issues in which you could take a solid economically nationalist position, but defending a white nationalist rally doesn't fall into this category.
My opinion is that you are intellectually superior to these arguments which you have begun to cling to so tenaciously. I guess I'm just suggesting that you not let your self-perception as a white intellectual blind you to the inherent dangers of a movement which you surely must recognize in your heart to be the embodiment of evil. Or, if you really are a Nazi sympathizer, just come clean with it. Better to honestly admit what you are and what your true position is than to tie yourself in mental knots using arguments and tactics which are, as you know, the epitome of shoddy critical thinking and disingenious discourse.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:16 PM   #1039
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without needing someone to make excuses for literal fascist scum here.
You make excuses for ANTIFA - andI don't remember you being too upset about ISIS systematically tossing the gays off buildings to their death. Or the cops murdered by BLM snipers. Or the mentally handicapped white kid tortured and forced to drink from a filthy toilet bowl by "Anti Trump" activists...or the Liberal activist mass shooting that almost killed Majority Whip Steve Scalise (R-La.)....Seth Rich...
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:17 PM   #1040
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Aeon, I'm going to address you from the perspective of one who would run, not walk, from a gathering of individuals spitting and kicking a statue of a Confederate general. So I am not a left-wing sympathizer by any means.
Here's my observation: You are twisting yourself into mental knots in order to not see the racism inherent in the Trump phenomenon. Most racism in modern times is more subtle than in times past. People who espouse these words use coded language so as to communicate their message as effectively as possible. Sure, you can assume good motives, but if you look at their communication patterns over a period of time, a marked pattern reveals itself. The common message or theme communicated to the marginalized is "you don't belong; you are not one of us." The totality of the birther movement against Obama could be described as that tactic taken to the level of obsession by Trump and his ilk. It takes a great deal of mental gyration to miss this rather blatant message.
You seem to want to communicate from the standpoint of a dispassionate observer. You value intellectualism and like to view yourself as a rationalist and an empirical thinker. However, your blind spot seems to be that you want to identify yourself as an outsider to this forum as well as a person of conservative values. There's nothing wrong with that except when it forces you to blind yourself to empirical truths that are staring you in the face. You simply cannot take a position of willful ignorance and then proceed to argue it without sacrificing your personal integrity. Steve Bannon plays this game with himself as well. He tries to promote the idea of economic nationalism without recognizing the inherent racism of most of his base. I'm not saying that there aren't issues in which you could take a solid economically nationalist position, but defending a white nationalist rally doesn't fall into this category.
My opinion is that you are intellectually superior to these arguments which you have begun to cling to so tenaciously. I guess I'm just suggesting that you not let your self-perception as a white intellectual blind you to the inherent dangers of a movement which you surely must recognize in your heart to be the embodiment of evil. Or, if you really are a Nazi sympathizer, just come clean with it. Better to honestly admit what you are and what your true position is than to tie yourself in mental knots using arguments and tactics which are, as you know, the epitome of shoddy critical thinking and disingenious discourse.
I'm not exactly new here...
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