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Old 08-24-2017, 07:07 PM   #1001
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Who is? The word "racism" is barely one hundred years old.


People who experience it on a regular basis?
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:12 PM   #1002
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Who is? The word "racism" is barely one hundred years old.


As is "Nazi", is that why we're having such issues with the definition? This makes no sense.

Come on guyz, these are new words just invented, racism doesn't really exist.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:13 PM   #1003
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Then he said a lot of things after that including:



Do you believe that "very fine people" would march alongside white men holding torches screaming "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil"?
There were multiple parades. And each parade was smaller than a local 4th of July parade.

Also, let's not forget that when directly asked if he supports white nationalists, he refused to answer and instead ranted about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

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I can't believe you think white nationalists are acceptable. My God, what century am I living in?
I find their existence acceptable. If you go down the path of which groups can exist and which ones can't - then who is the tyrant?
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:14 PM   #1004
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People who experience it on a regular basis?
Isn't that the entire premise of the white nationalist movement?
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:15 PM   #1005
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Isn't that the entire premise of the white nationalist movement?


That white people are discriminated against on the basis of race?
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:16 PM   #1006
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Then he said a lot of things after that including:



Do you believe that "very fine people" would march alongside white men holding torches screaming "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil"?

Also, let's not forget that when directly asked if he supports white nationalists, he refused to answer and instead ranted about George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

I can't believe you think white nationalists are acceptable. My God, what century am I living in?
Wait - you said Trump didn't condemn the neo-Nazis and the KKK - then I give you a TRANSCRIPT of him actually condemning them and you completely ignore it. At least admit that he did in fact condemn them.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:20 PM   #1007
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Wait - you said Trump didn't condemn the neo-Nazis and the KKK - then I give you a TRANSCRIPT of him actually condemning them and you completely ignore it. At least admit that he did in fact condemn them.
I didn't ignore it. I said he said a lot more things afterwards. In my view, he READ a prepared statement that he didn't believe in, then the next day the real Trump revealed himself and I choose to take his remarks on the Tuesday at face value.

If he had said nothing after the Monday statement which you posted, I would have thought his initial "many sides, many sides" response of the weekend was inappropriate but would have left it at that.

He is the one who shat all over that transcripted statement. I don't believe one word of what he said in that transcript, not because I have a vivid imagination but because he said the total opposite the next day.

You're the one ignoring what happened after the prepared statement was read.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:25 PM   #1008
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There were multiple parades. And each parade was smaller than a local 4th of July parade.




Well, not exactly true, but even yet let's not fall into this rabbit hole of sweeping under the rug because it wasn't as big as Trump's record breaking inauguration

I was following this for at least a month leading up to. This was a well organized gathering. This was several hate groups that talked about putting aside their differences to #unitetheright

They purposely stated to lay low on Friday, they bragged of which media outlets were following who, they goaded each other leading up to, and talked about how now we're emboldened and have an ally. They believed this was going to be an awakening. This was not some small mom and pop, hey what are you doing this weekend gathering.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:27 PM   #1009
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See, now we're getting somewhere. So, do you Aeon subscribe to white nationalism?
No, I do not. But I do want to understand how people get to this point. They make some decent points, but I do not agree with their conclusions. I do read some of their literature and it's not entirely whacky. And tearing down statues only adds validity to their concerns. Now the David Duke's can say, "See! I told you! And Mt. Rushmore is next...then the Lincoln memorial...then FDR! Then the names of your towns..."

Yeah - I think the Left and arbitrarily applied political correctness have given fuel to their once tiny movement.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:31 PM   #1010
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i debated traditional marriage since at least 2005, and my own thoughts evolved from domestic partnership as a good compromise to feeling that only legal equality was acceptable. that issue is a great example of FYM at it's best.
On this - I agree. Those were some good debates and my views evolved as well.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:31 PM   #1011
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They make some decent points,
Such as?

Quote:
I do read some of their literature and it's not entirely whacky.
Such as?

Quote:
Yeah - I think the Left and arbitrarily applied political correctness have given fuel to their once tiny movement.
Political correctness is responsible for the neo-Nazi movement growing in the US? I thought you Republicans were all about personal responsibility. None of these racist assholes in the Vice video can be blamed, after all, they were goaded into their racism by those of us oppressing them with Happy Holidays in December. You do realize that very analogous things have been said by the Nazis about the Jews? That the Jews "keeping to themselves" and "being greedy money lenders" fueled the Nazi movement. It was reprehensible then and is equally as reprehensible now.

I honestly find your views to be really, really sad more than anything. Makes me sad that we've learned nothing from history's mistakes.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:36 PM   #1012
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No, I do not. But I do want to understand how people get to this point. They make some decent points, but I do not agree with their conclusions. I do read some of their literature and it's not entirely whacky. And tearing down statues only adds validity to their concerns. Now the David Duke's can say, "See! I told you! And Mt. Rushmore is next...then the Lincoln memorial...then FDR! Then the names of your towns..."



Yeah - I think the Left and arbitrarily applied political correctness have given fuel to their once tiny movement.


Lincoln, FDR, etc. they accomplished things, they attributed to our society.

Confederate soldier monuments celebrate a losing side that fought for something abhorrent. This moral equivalence is absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if history was different and going to a school, or walking in a park that is named after someone who fought for the idea that YOU should not be educated, YOU cannot vote, YOU are not considered human?
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:36 PM   #1013
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I didn't ignore it. I said he said a lot more things afterwards. In my view, he READ a prepared statement that he didn't believe in, then the next day the real Trump revealed himself and I choose to take his remarks on the Tuesday at face value.

If he had said nothing after the Monday statement which you posted, I would have thought his initial "many sides, many sides" response of the weekend was inappropriate but would have left it at that.

He is the one who shat all over that transcripted statement. I don't believe one word of what he said in that transcript, not because I have a vivid imagination but because he said the total opposite the next day.

You're the one ignoring what happened after the prepared statement was read.
I haven't ignored it. The whole discussion the last several pages has been about it either directly or indirectly. Both sides were to blame for the chaos. One man is to blame for the murder.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:43 PM   #1014
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Lincoln, FDR, etc. they accomplished things, they attributed to our society.

Confederate soldier monuments celebrate a losing side that fought for something abhorrent. This moral equivalence is absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if history was different and going to a school, or walking in a park that is named after someone who fought for the idea that YOU should not be educated, YOU cannot vote, YOU are not considered human?
I concede - I think it's strange they exist (with the exception of the National Park battlefields - they really do give context there). Then again, I'm not a Southerner who had relatives who fought in the war. (I'm a Northerner that had relatives fight in the war).

However, the timing is strange. Why this mass movement to remove these statues now?
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:50 PM   #1015
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I concede - I think it's strange they exist (with the exception of the National Park battlefields - they really do give context there). Then again, I'm not a Southerner who had relatives who fought in the war. (I'm a Northerner that had relatives fight in the war).



However, the timing is strange. Why this mass movement to remove these statues now?

I'm glad you agree, it's always been weird to me, and I live here. I think there's a big difference in a memorial for the lives lost and a celebration of the confederacy.

I think it's been a long time coming, and having an emboldened hate group movement was just one of the elements in this powder keg.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:52 PM   #1016
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Both sides were to blame for the chaos. One man is to blame for the murder.
No, both sides were not to blame.

One side supports this, just so that we are all clear.



The Vice documentary is perfectly clear on that.

Shame on anybody justifying this by blaming the other side. Just shame.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:59 PM   #1017
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No, both sides were not to blame.

One side supports this, just so that we are all clear.



The Vice documentary is perfectly clear on that.

Shame on anybody justifying this by blaming the other side. Just shame.
Is that pic from Charlottesville? Man , that escalated quickly!
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:01 PM   #1018
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Again, I'm just sad that you sympathize with the neo-Nazis.

Not much left to say.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:13 PM   #1019
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Again, I'm just sad that you sympathize with the neo-Nazis.

Not much left to say.
I sympathize with the right to have controversial thoughts, to publish controversial books, and to march in controversial parades. These rights end where violence begins. I hold that standard to both sides.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:20 PM   #1020
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I sympathize with the right to have controversial thoughts, to publish controversial books, and to march in controversial parades. These rights end where violence begins. I hold that standard to both sides.


I support the idea that they have those rights, but never will I sympathize with them, and I hold that standard to all of fucking humanity.
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