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Old 08-16-2017, 12:16 PM   #761
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An unpacking of this for me after missing a couple of days...


  • Don’t blame the ACLU. This has been the trend among some fellow progressives lately. No. Nope. The 1st Amendment is the 1st Amendment. The government is required to do what it did. And we are supposed to be there to shout them down. That’s where these Nazi fucks get it wrong…they keep shouting about their 1st Amendment rights being abridged. No…that went down exactly like it is supposed to. You requested a permit, you were granted a permit, the populous showed up to let you know your shipped in hatred is not acceptable, and the police made a decision that your type of speech was about to create danger, which is where the 1st Amendment no longer covers your speech, so it got moved to an alternate spot, then shut down. Then people went people.

  • Violence is not always unjustified. When a movement that calls for a fundamental dismantling of our very structure at the least, and violence/genocide at its worst, gathers steam by organizing in your town, and makes a rather baiting march through your town, shouting epithets at people along the way, the expectation that those on the correct side of our national structure should remain perfectly still is one of stupidity. Besides…it wasn’t what they were looking for at all. Watch the Vice segment…the fatty bald dude makes clear they are not non-violent. He was itching for a fight. He got one. It wasn’t BLM organizing to make violence, or Antifa…these are buzz-phrases at this point. White nationalists, including people riding under Nazi banners and other fascist emblems, gathered from around the nation looking for both a unifying rally and a fight. They got it. Watching a Nazi cry about some fisticuffs in the streets warms my heart.


  • That all said, the violence was not organized in any way. There were jump offs from tension and exchange. There were counter-protesters there to shout down the Nazis, which is exactly what every non-fascist American should do if they are in your town. Then, TerroristBoy drove his car through a crowd of people. We are a nation of stats, so we hear “one dead”, and it is heartbreaking, but we hear “one dead” a lot, and are also somewhat numb to the meaning behind that. But it was more than one dead, and that Vice video helps create the visceral reaction Americans needed. These weren’t black cloaked anarchists, or military-like counter-protestors filling their Molotov cocktails and sharpening their knives/loading their guns. It was a diverse group of people reacting to a White Nationalist rally in their town, or region, or nation. They aren’t hardened soldiers, or medics, etc. And they saw a car purposely tear through human flesh for the purpose of killing all possible. One woman was killed, a tragedy by itself. But many more were injured, maimed, in shock…and then even more witnessed lives taken and destroyed in their view for doing nothing more than coming out to show strength against White Nationalists, something everyone who is not a racist Nazi should do. Emotions are pumping, fight-or-flight happening, anger developing from shock. And they knew that these, as I referred to them before, Milhouse VanRacists were on the other side of the road. They knew, instinctively, that these people would cheer the destruction of life, of families grieving, of dads standing next to hospital beds of their daughters who just went out to protest hate out of a deep well of compassion…they knew instinctively that these people’s bookmarked media would call the deceased a “fat whore”. They knew that this group they already started out to protest was going to laugh and snicker and consider the horrible tragedy they just witnessed a win for their side. Quite frankly, the composure of the counter-protestors in Charlottesville is to be looked at in awe. How they did not go straight to the White Nationalists gathering and start tearing them limb to limb out of grief, anger, and blame is beyond me. Our president talking about evil “from many sides”. Bullshit. Evil gathered in Charlottesville. The BLM and Antifa, even if they were evil, did not make this happen. One side did not cheer the death and injury of innocent people doing nothing more than saying “no” to hate in their town. Even if some counter-protestors were gathered there for nefarious purposes, the vast majority were not. They were on the righteous side of facing down fascism. They didn’t ask for any of this to happen. The blame is on one side, period…the side that chose to gather nationally to align various factions of White Nationalism, to align the keyboard warriors with the hate crimers. And that is exactly what the stated goal was by any interviewed…the statue and park name are all side elements and in the courts, anyway, with these events creating zero impact on that topic. There was one side of hatred there, period. If other questionable (not my opinion) groups showed up to counter-attack, that is a reaction. Only one side was proactively dispensing evil. And how they got out of there alive, after the car, is a testament to the basic decency of the counter-protestors.
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Old 08-16-2017, 12:37 PM   #762
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and here is where some of my American comes out, and will maybe cause some to get the wrong impression, but fuck it...

This is a world problem. It is a western problem that is growing. I see the occasional European or Australian talking shit about "dumbass America electing a racist" and how we are a racist nation, etc, etc.


While I am right with the general line of thought that our current president is a racist being advised by White Nationalists and has created an opportunity for the cockroaches to come out of the dark, I find some of the arrogance from our European friends to be eye-rolling. Try to hold a football match without bananas being thrown at black players, or creating a world where there is no need for the international body overseeing the world's largest sport to directly address racism in fan bases, occasionally resorting to emptying stadiums for games. Tend to your own Brexit issues, or the issues that allowed a straight racist fascist to be within an eyelash of power in France. Keep an eye on the eastern part of the continent as it descends into ethnic slaughter. Check some island continent's existing anti-Muslim laws.

I am not saying "hey...no big deal...we all suck, so why try?" I am saying save us the side eye and the "tut tuts" while you battle old social caste systems that eliminate even basic mobility, where you determine an entire soul based on their accent.


Racism is a human problem. And we are having a particularly bad set of days here in the USA after getting lax and thinking we had progressed so far. The "alt-left"? Not sure what that is, but I think of the Bernie Bros (I voted for Bernie...in the primary) and the Stein people who decided to perform relativism gymnastics to make Hillary Clinton out to be the same as Donald Trump in order to allow their path to "voter integrity", which was just a front for falling for a cult of personality. So the majority in America, the one the GOP tries so hard to gerrymander into non-existence, the one the GOP employs voter-suppression tactics against to give their minority view, which splinters into another minority view of White Nationalism...we made it easy for them by splintering ourselves. Hillary = Donald. Bullfuckingshit. So we got lazy, fell asleep at the switch, and Donald Trump happened, and we are fighting his technicality-driven, less popular vote winning, Comey&Emails&Russia assisted ass in every way we can now. This racist bullshit is NOT a majority position in the US. Cameras are allowing a lot of white people to see what POC go through with police and in life every day. And there is enough of this plague that it was able to re-assert itself in open view in leadership when good people relaxed, felt comfortable, thought they could push for the most progressive option or nothing. Nope...Nothing isn't actual nothing. Nothing...Bernie or nothing = Bernie or Trump. Stein or bust = Stein or Trump. We fucked up.


But don't pretend to be a world of racial harmony looking at the USA petrie dish.
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Old 08-16-2017, 01:41 PM   #763
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:05 PM   #764
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He wants to give the illusion of power in that decision. Ha.
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Old 08-16-2017, 02:30 PM   #765
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While I am right with the general line of thought that our current president is a racist being advised by White Nationalists and has created an opportunity for the cockroaches to come out of the dark, I find some of the arrogance from our European friends to be eye-rolling. Try to hold a football match without bananas being thrown at black players, or creating a world where there is no need for the international body overseeing the world's largest sport to directly address racism in fan bases, occasionally resorting to emptying stadiums for games. Tend to your own Brexit issues, or the issues that allowed a straight racist fascist to be within an eyelash of power in France. Keep an eye on the eastern part of the continent as it descends into ethnic slaughter. Check some island continent's existing anti-Muslim laws.

I am not saying "hey...no big deal...we all suck, so why try?" I am saying save us the side eye and the "tut tuts" while you battle old social caste systems that eliminate even basic mobility, where you determine an entire soul based on their accent.


I wonder why they feel that way ?

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Old 08-16-2017, 03:40 PM   #766
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Like that n-word tape or even the pee tape would mean a damned thing. No one would be surprised by the revelation of either or those things.
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Old 08-16-2017, 03:43 PM   #767
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Like that n-word tape or even the pee tape would mean a damned thing. No one would be surprised by the revelation of either or those things.


Agreed. Everything he does is so deluged that it becomes white noise.
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:05 PM   #768
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It's also tough when his base doesn't see anything wrong with it. If the N-word tape was released, they'd just claim he's not PC, EVERYONE says that word, or he was clearly joking.

The pee pee tape. Who doesn't like hiring prostitutes to piss all over the bed out of spite of a fellow rival?

As Headache wrote a few pages back, it's time we split the country up. There is no uniting us ever again. When sexual harassment, sympathy for kkk and neo nazis doesn't unite people, what will?
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:26 PM   #769
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You know, he probably COULD shoot someone tomorrow in the middle of 5th Avenue. He'd claim it was self-defense from an assassination attempt.


And it would WORK.
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:45 PM   #770
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Like that n-word tape or even the pee tape would mean a damned thing. No one would be surprised by the revelation of either or those things.
Nah it would... At least the N word tape. It would force the Republicans that are hanging on by a thread to bail, at which point we'd either have an impeachment or a resignation.
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Old 08-16-2017, 04:47 PM   #771
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It exists. It's whether or not the person or persons who have copies of it want the legal trouble that will come with it

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Old 08-16-2017, 05:07 PM   #772
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Nah it would... At least the N word tape. It would force the Republicans that are hanging on by a thread to bail, at which point we'd either have an impeachment or a resignation.
I have zero to little faith that would actually happen.
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:24 PM   #773
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I have zero to little faith that would actually happen.
Eh... It's starting to happen now just on the implication of racism. If a video of le grande orange actually dopping N Bombs comes out, the flood gates will open
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:26 PM   #774
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Like that n-word tape or even the pee tape would mean a damned thing. No one would be surprised by the revelation of either or those things.
Agreed. He already admitted to and openly advocated sexual assault with no apparent consequences. Why would this be any different?
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:30 PM   #775
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Agreed. He already admitted to and openly advocated sexual assault with no apparent consequences. Why would this be any different?

misogyny is tolerated more than racism.

although i'm sure people would rush to his defense. i mean, Beyonce sometimes uses that word. and we've seen a Republican party willing to tolerate Nazis in order to pass tax cuts for the wealthy. so, dunno.
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:54 PM   #776
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Pence has to be hiding out in a bunker somewhere hoping this is over soon.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:21 PM   #777
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misogyny is tolerated more than racism.



although i'm sure people would rush to his defense. i mean, Beyonce sometimes uses that word. and we've seen a Republican party willing to tolerate Nazis in order to pass tax cuts for the wealthy. so, dunno.


This is by no means a defense for Trump or misogyny, and while I do understand that women are treated unfairly, I really hope it's well understood just how bad racism is.

Prior to now I would say that racism and homophobia were on par. Luckily, the latter has changed a little. It and misogyny are sort of in the same ballpark now. Though, misogyny is a little worse due to it being brushed aside whereas homophobia has gotten the light of day.

This isn't really a message at you, Irvine, but it just got me thinking. Trump has been a shitbag for all three things I've mentioned, but homophobia has seen probably an overall positive, even if not intended. Probably because this "alt right" has followed in orange Donnie's footsteps and ignored/gave up on homophobia. But while Trump has been terrible towards women, he's been almost directly supportive of the white nationalist folk. Almost. Basically. It's bad. Racism was a problem prior, but that man is fucking practically endorsing it. It's so sad to see. I really feel for black people right now, because they've been forced into a spotlight in the absolute wrong way.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:30 PM   #778
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the alt-right may hold some appeal for disaffected, angry, young gay men who are attracted to the tribal pull of fascism, as well as homoerotic Nazi aesthetics. part of their tactics might be to shift away from homophobia in order to widen their recruiting pool. and lots of people think Richard Spencer is gay. and that guy in the VICE video set off my gaydar.

i found this article interesting:

How alt-right leaders Jack Donovan and James O’Meara attract gay men to the movement.

of course, there's plenty of video of said Nazis chanting "fuck you, faggots" last weekend in Charlottesville.
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Old 08-16-2017, 06:38 PM   #779
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I don't know about you, but I don't feel victimized by that. The rhetoric of their dear leader clearly doesn't support that. That isn't a tip of that hat to him (he's been neutral, which from my perspective is a thumbs down). He hasn't outright attacked anyone, which is why he gets away with what he does. It's his support for opposition that's disgusting. Mostly in the way of white nationalists, where failure to reject indeed accepts their ways as the norm.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:00 PM   #780
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Pence has to be hiding out in a bunker somewhere hoping this is over soon.
No, actually he made a statement today that he stands by the president and his words.

Fucking coward.
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