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Old 08-09-2017, 06:01 PM   #561
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WAAZ what part of AZ do you live in. What an incredible visual feast of the high desert, Grand Canyon, painted desert, Oak Creek Canyon (on my way to SF,Cali by bus). And Monument Valley of the Navaho Nation, and the 3 mesas of the Hopi Nation. Oh yes and Argartha (a volcanic lava 1,000 ft spike) on your way to MV.
Ultra swoon with wonderment! So beautiful!
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:20 PM   #562
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WAAZ what part of AZ do you live in. What an incredible visual feast of the high desert, Grand Canyon, painted desert, Oak Creek Canyon (on my way to SF,Cali by bus). And Monument Valley of the Navaho Nation, and the 3 mesas of the Hopi Nation. Oh yes and Argartha (a volcanic lava 1,000 ft spike) on your way to MV.
Ultra swoon with wonderment! So beautiful!
Grew up in Northern Arizona (Sedona/OCC was practically my back yard), had a 2nd grade pen pal at 2nd Mesa (Hopi rez), but am a Valley-ite (Phoenix area) now.

We are, if still accurate, the only place surrounded by man-made borders that contains every region from arid desert to tree line.

I grew up at 7000 ft elevation with 100+ inches of snow a year in one of the 10 snowiest cities in the US (Flagstaff), but few really get to know about that Arizona. Seems you have it covered!
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:48 PM   #563
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The full NK statement about this goes into a lot of detail, if NK do this there's no doubt the US will attack. I wonder if KJU feels boxed in now and he's in suicide mode? Anyway, if this happens and it's even only test missiles NK will be flattened. Seems very detailed for rhetoric?

http://news.sky.com/story/north-kore...ugust-10981683

https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/895405038608187392
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:57 PM   #564
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If you ask me, president cheetoh is trying to trigger an internal coup in NK. I might actually be giving orange Donnie more credit than he's worth, but it does seem like quite the businessy move to attempt to out-balls someone by dangling lives at the poker table. Me thinks he's attempting to scare the North Korean people, not Kim Jong Un.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:21 PM   #565
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Now would be a good time for Bono to tell us how exactly do we dismantle an atomic bomb.
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:23 PM   #566
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So that leaves war.
no.

the war option absolutely has to be off the table
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:54 PM   #567
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US Politics II

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Originally Posted by mama cass
no.

the war option absolutely has to be off the table


Just to be clear I'm not advocating for war by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just asking what is a possible scenario that will not be as terrifying as anything I can imagine?

Continuing the diplomatic approach will mean that NK sooner or later will be a full nuclear power with the capability to wipe out just about any country or half the planet for that matter, and a leader that is not just completely insane but also a country with far less checks and balances than the US. Just what are the options at this point?
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:54 AM   #568
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Just to be clear I'm not advocating for war by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just asking what is a possible scenario that will not be as terrifying as anything I can imagine?

Continuing the diplomatic approach will mean that NK sooner or later will be a full nuclear power with the capability to wipe out just about any country or half the planet for that matter, and a leader that is not just completely insane but also a country with far less checks and balances than the US. Just what are the options at this point?
North Korea needs "taken out" but how do you do it? NK at the hint of an attack would virtually destroy Soul and undoubtedly start lobbing nukes around. Also would China simply stand by? would it lead to a world war? It's an incredibly precarious situation. I've no doubt NK are planning to "bracket" Guam and at that point it's anyones guess as to what will happen.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:26 AM   #569
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would virtually destroy Soul
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:47 AM   #570
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It would kill an incredible amount of people. What fantast land are you living in if you don't believe that? (Trump land probably).
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:51 AM   #571
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I think hes living in the land where it's spelled Seoul.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:17 PM   #572
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It would kill an incredible amount of people. What fantast land are you living in if you don't believe that?
what, you need yet another long, highly detailed, academically sourced post describing how it's literally impossible for north korea to "virtually destroy" seoul?

"kill an incredible amount of people" is vastly different than the virtual destruction of the entire city. i never once said they couldn't kill lots of civilians.

here is the full radius of destruction if north korea drops the largest nuke they are known to have ever tested on downtown seoul:



it would require nothing short of fighting a months-long running street battle like stalingrad across the entire MASSIVE city of seoul in order for it to be annihilated.

i've said it several times now and you seem to never get it so i'm going to all-caps it and hopefully this time it sticks: STOP BUYING SO EASILY INTO BULLSHIT HYPERBOLE. YOU'RE BELIEVING EVERYTHING *NORTH KOREA* IS TELLING YOU FOR GOD'S SAKES. IT IS EXACTLY WHAT KIM WANTS AND THAT HYSTERIA IS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO START THIS WAR THAT YOU ARE SO TERRIFIED OF.

Quote:
(Trump land probably).
PS: you can fuck right off with this bit.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:25 PM   #573
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what, you need yet another long, highly detailed, academically sourced post describing how it's literally impossible for north korea to "virtually destroy" seoul?

"kill an incredible amount of people" is vastly different than the virtual destruction of the entire city. i never once said they couldn't kill lots of civilians.

here is the full radius of destruction if north korea drops the largest nuke they are known to have ever tested on downtown seoul:



it would require nothing short of fighting a months-long running street battle like stalingrad across the entire MASSIVE city of seoul in order for it to be annihilated.

i've said it several times now and you seem to never get it so i'm going to all-caps it and hopefully this time it sticks: STOP BUYING SO EASILY INTO BULLSHIT HYPERBOLE. YOU'RE BELIEVING EVERYTHING *NORTH KOREA* IS TELLING YOU FOR GOD'S SAKES. IT IS EXACTLY WHAT KIM WANTS AND THAT HYSTERIA IS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO START THIS WAR THAT YOU ARE SO TERRIFIED OF.



PS: you can fuck right off with this bit.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/why-n...d-toward-guam/

This isn't troubling? From an expert. No need for caps, you're seriously underestimating what's going on here and even discussing a nuke being dropped on Seoul no matter how "small" it is beyond belief.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:40 PM   #574
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Either China steps up with pressure, or we will be at war by the end of the year if not sooner.

I'm not completely against war with NK, but I would feel so much better if it wasn't Trump in charge.

Even Obama botched Libya, and some would argue Syria and he strikes me as someone who is very calculating about every decision he makes (Clinton the same way). That being said, the Middle East is not an easy fix, and other brilliant minds have failed too.

With Trump, I feel like he'd just order 50 Nukes drop and then tell South Korea and China to clean up the mess.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:47 PM   #575
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Either China steps up with pressure, or we will be at war by the end of the year if not sooner.

I'm not completely against war with NK, but I would feel so much better if it wasn't Trump in charge.

Even Obama botched Libya, and some would argue Syria and he strikes me as someone who is very calculating about every decision he makes (Clinton the same way). That being said, the Middle East is not an easy fix, and other brilliant minds have failed too.

With Trump, I feel like he'd just order 50 Nukes drop and then tell South Korea and China to clean up the mess.
Trump has zero regard for human life. It's scary don't want to think about what he'd do.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:02 PM   #576
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Maybe NK needs to open a Trump hotel and he'd reconsider war
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:07 PM   #577
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Originally Posted by TheFox View Post
http://thediplomat.com/2017/08/why-n...d-toward-guam/

This isn't troubling? From an expert. No need for caps, you're seriously underestimating what's going on here and even discussing a nuke being dropped on Seoul no matter how "small" it is beyond belief.
lol you should try reading articles before you post them, dude. that one has absolutely squat fuck all to do with anything i said. it's about guam and IRBM interception. we've been talking about NK's supposed ability to "virtually destroy" (your words) the city of seoul.

i never claimed that all this isn't somewhat troubling. of course it is. there is a chance this could spiral out of control. i probably have more reason to be concerned than anyone here because i'm on the supplemental reserve list for the canadian forces until 2022, which means i'd be the first to be called up in the event that shit hits the fan.

but more likely than not the odds are that there will be no shooting war. kim is not a stupid or crazy man. he was educated in the west and is fully aware of the capabilities of the american military. what he wants more than anything on earth, as with all dictators, is to stay in power and consolidate that power even further. he knows exactly what would happen if he actually went to war with the rest of the world. he's not interested in deliberately starting a war he knows he's going to lose that will end up with him either dead or in jail for war crimes for the rest of his life. he wants to scare everyone into backing off the military and economic pressure so he can look like a hero to the people of north korea and gain even more domestic power. the ultimate goal of NK's nuclear program has always been deterrence, not wanton destruction.

now i am not saying, nor have i ever said, with certainty there will be no war, or that if there is a war it will be an easy one. but i am saying with certainty that the nightmare scenarios you keep bringing up of seoul or tokyo or guam or wherever else being vaporized are out of the question unless the entire city turns into fucking groznyy for a year or more. there is no chance in hell the army of the DPRK could logistically, morally, and physically sustain an attritional battle like that. you're worried about things that are impossible - you might as well be terrified of the imminent unicorn invasion from narnia.

but look, if you're just flat uninterested in what i have to say then just say so. if you really insist on living in irrational hysteria then please let me know so i won't waste any more of my time trying to bring you some reality.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:25 PM   #578
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would virtually destroy Soul
Gosh, I hope not. Pretty sure that's where Bono lives.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:46 PM   #579
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lol you should try reading articles before you post them, dude. that one has absolutely squat fuck all to do with anything i said. it's about guam and IRBM interception. we've been talking about NK's supposed ability to "virtually destroy" (your words) the city of seoul.

i never claimed that all this isn't somewhat troubling. of course it is. there is a chance this could spiral out of control. i probably have more reason to be concerned than anyone here because i'm on the supplemental reserve list for the canadian forces until 2022, which means i'd be the first to be called up in the event that shit hits the fan.

but more likely than not the odds are that there will be no shooting war. kim is not a stupid or crazy man. he was educated in the west and is fully aware of the capabilities of the american military. what he wants more than anything on earth, as with all dictators, is to stay in power and consolidate that power even further. he knows exactly what would happen if he actually went to war with the rest of the world. he's not interested in deliberately starting a war he knows he's going to lose that will end up with him either dead or in jail for war crimes for the rest of his life. he wants to scare everyone into backing off the military and economic pressure so he can look like a hero to the people of north korea and gain even more domestic power. the ultimate goal of NK's nuclear program has always been deterrence, not wanton destruction.

now i am not saying, nor have i ever said, with certainty there will be no war, or that if there is a war it will be an easy one. but i am saying with certainty that the nightmare scenarios you keep bringing up of seoul or tokyo or guam or wherever else being vaporized are out of the question unless the entire city turns into fucking groznyy for a year or more. there is no chance in hell the army of the DPRK could logistically, morally, and physically sustain an attritional battle like that. you're worried about things that are impossible - you might as well be terrified of the imminent unicorn invasion from narnia.

but look, if you're just flat uninterested in what i have to say then just say so. if you really insist on living in irrational hysteria then please let me know so i won't waste any more of my time trying to bring you some reality.
I hope you're right, I really do and I don't want to be hyperbolic at all I just can't understand the apparent madness of Trump. Why this now? https://twitter.com/AP/status/895714739220865024

If it was Obama I wouldn't be half as worried (I know the lack of action by past Presidents has essentially caused this) but if there were two people in the world who could lead us to this worst case scenarios then it would be KJU and Trump! If you say this can't happen and things will descalate then fair enough, I bow to your superior knowledge but the crazy rhetoric of Trump is driving a lot of hysteria when he should be calming the situation.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:57 PM   #580
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Maybe NK needs to open a Trump hotel and he'd reconsider war
not a bad idea
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