BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Agreed
US Politics
- Thread starter DaveC
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
- Status
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Yeah, that's the part I think a lot of Trump supporters don't seem to be getting. They keep saying, "She lost, get over it!" Yeah, we know that. We've long ago accepted that. I don't get why they seem to think we're hoping for some magical Clinton presidency out of all of this.
Heck, forget about Clinton entirely-for me, a lot of my confusion is why people thought Trump was worth supporting over all the other Republican candidates that they had to choose from during the primaries. I didn't personally care for any of the other GOP candidates either, because I disagreed with them significantly on their policies, but good lord, at least they had some level of experience. At least they weren't wildly unpredictable and reckless in their behavior and ways of speaking. At least I got the feeling that a few of them, like Jeb or perhaps Rubio, or Kasich, might've been willing to occasionally work with Democrats.
And most importantly, for those who lean conservative, at least one of those other candidates would have an easier time leading their party and keeping it intact. Trump can't even lead his own party properly, it's as big a mess as the Democratic party seems to be right now. They have the majority and they STILL can't figure out how to pass anything. Mind, for the country at large, I think that's a good thing, because a lot of what they want to pass is scary and will hurt a lot of people, but still, if you're a GOP supporter, I can imagine it's gotta be rather frustrating seeing them not actually accomplishing much of anything right now. And if you're a GOP supporter who can't stand Trump, it's got to be even more maddening that your party's been left in the care of somebody who doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and knowing that there are people who actually think he's good for the party and the country at large when it's abundantly clear that's not the case.
And okay, they voted for him because they initially thought he was somehow different from the typical career politician. They thought he'd somehow be free of scandal and corruption, and would "drain the swamp" unlike the other career politicians who'd support their buddies. Well, clearly that has not been the case. So where's the outrage from his supporters? Why is he getting a pass for the very same things they were willing to rake not just Clinton, but other Republican candidates, over the coals for? If nothing else, it'd be good to understand this mindset so other politicians in both parties can figure out how to better deal with and handle that kind of blatant hypocrisy going forward.
And then, like I said a while back, there's the fact that the Trump administration is peddling a bunch of things that aren't true, and his supporters are eating them up and believing they're true. That is perhaps the biggest reason he needs to go. Politicians have lied before, sure, but he and his administration are in full conspiracy theory mode, and trying to actively disregard legitimate news sources. That's dangerous. And this is the guy we're trusting with our nuclear codes? Really?
I think Trump supporters do have a lot to answer for, and I'm tired of them trying to find excuses to justify their choice, when the evidence that they made a very bad decision is pretty apparent to anyone paying any sort of attention.
I think there is a rather large contingent of voters who vote almost entirely on the issue of abortion. Aka, as long as Democrats are pro-choice, they will vote Republican, no matter how awful the candidate. My parents, and several older relatives, have admitted as much.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Ok but why not contribute? I don't want an echo chamber either and would be very interested to hear your take on some of these topics that people have asked for responses on.
So they voted for a thrice-married charlatan who conveniently despite a storied, self-admitted history of philandering and womanizing has no children out of wedlock?
That's some willful blindness right there.
Oh, absolutely. But abortion trumps (pardon the term) all of that, because at least the Republican Party pays lip service to that and tries to actively oppress women who might be considering it. Because innocent life. Never mind the fact that, in my parents case anyway, their position is based on their Catholic faith, despite the fact that Republican policies directly conflict with the Catholic church's position on sanctity of life when it comes to capital punishment, care for the poor, care for our environment... etc.
It's easier to turn a blind eye to that by saying that, well, all those people aren't as innocent as the unborn, so... sucks to be them.
It's easier to turn a blind eye to that by saying that, well, all those people aren't as innocent as the unborn, so... sucks to be them.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
His list of SCOTUS nominees likely made a difference for many.
It doesn't matter how he lives his life. It matters how much he is willing to use government to control the lives and bodies of others
I have been of the view for a long time that a vast majority of churches (particularly the fundamentalist, unassociated megachurch varieties that don't answer to a central power like the Catholic or Anglican/Episcopalian churches) are in blatant contravention of their tax-exempt status. It is simply unbelievable that many of the voters who attend these, who are generally poorly educated and have no concept of how the judiciary works, nevermind how the common law works, would be driven to such absolute voting positions without some heavy guidance from their pastors or church groups. That sort of group think doesn't evolve from reading the New Testament one time too many. Admittedly it's probably a combination of pulpit + AM radio and more recently online materials.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
There are also quite a few suburban mega churches in Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc., with educated and affluent congregations who are just as rigid about abortion. It's a very easy issue to feel sanctimonious about, and it's such an easy way to cut through the chatter and decide who's good and who's bad.
Do you believe in killing babies?
It's clarifying. And this is why SSM was never the new abortion. Adam and Steve getting married might cause some hand wringing, but killing babies? Who could possibly want to kill babies?
Do you believe in killing babies?
It's clarifying. And this is why SSM was never the new abortion. Adam and Steve getting married might cause some hand wringing, but killing babies? Who could possibly want to kill babies?
thanks, Diemen. i needed a good laugh.
That's true, but I always assumed that those sorts of congregations pay lip service to abortion while actually voting with $ signs in their eyes.
End result is the same, but the motivation is a bit different from an evangelical voter in the Ozarks.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
And of course, there's also the fact that the GOP and its supporters complain all the time about women having abortions, but they won't support any policies that actually would legitimately reduce women's chances of having abortions. Like letting women have easier access to birth control and other forms of healthcare, or allowing comprehensive, informative sex education in schools, or things of that sort.
Nope, instead they'll just keep on with that abstinence-only education and tell people they don't have to sell somebody birth control if their religion is against it. 'Cause all the studies have shown that's been working SO well thus far!
And the whole "I'm against killing babies" mindset is all the more insulting, because that just shows that they really haven't the first clue what's going on in the mind of a woman who has to make that choice, or what she might be going through. Contrary to what they want to believe, it's just not that simple.
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Can you imagine the reaction in the US if the mayor of London/PM of the UK/etc had picked a Twitter fight with the mayor of Boston after the marathon bombing?
Jesus Fucking Christ, I am just so ashamed to be an American right now.
Jesus Fucking Christ, I am just so ashamed to be an American right now.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Every decent human being should be ashamed that a grown man is choosing to pick fights over social media, but the PUSA? That is far beyond ashamed.
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Why the Dems will continue to lose, summed up, in one sarcastic post.
Did you not see my other post where I basically stated that I was for 90% of what Bernie Socialism stands for?
Higher taxes on Corporations
Higher Taxes on Rich
Universal Healthcare
Universal Income
But what I am not for is being so simple minded that anyone who makes $$$$ is somehow evil. And every poor person in America is somehow a hero, just for being poor.
There are no perfect solutions, or government, or societies. We aren't ever going to be presented with the two BEST options. Instead, we need to make the best choice out of any situation.
We made the worst possible decision ever with Trump, and who knows, maybe we don't get another chance.
Higher taxes on Corporations
Higher Taxes on Rich
Universal Healthcare
Universal Income
But what I am not for is being so simple minded that anyone who makes $$$$ is somehow evil. And every poor person in America is somehow a hero, just for being poor.
There are no perfect solutions, or government, or societies. We aren't ever going to be presented with the two BEST options. Instead, we need to make the best choice out of any situation.
We made the worst possible decision ever with Trump, and who knows, maybe we don't get another chance.
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
I did not see your other post, I was about 15 pages behind and didn't see everything, but it's more the sentiment I disagree with. I'm very wary of Democrats demonizing the left as being too strict in vetting their candidates, and in being dismissive of criticisms of capitalism. My worst fears about the reactions to Trump's victory have come true, in that the establishment Democrts and their supporters have learned absolutely nothing from the last year.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
What should they have learned? You're not still suggesting they should be pushing single payer when they have no power, or yelling capitalism kills?
A grown man? How about a man-child? There's something psychologically wrong with him, aside from his narcissism.
And Trump supporters say he's their "man", the epitome of the masculine American. That speaks volumes about them.
The Democrats/Left blew it after 2008. They were too proud of themselves for electing a black man into the White House that they basically gave up on every other election at that point.
Where the GOP built up their grassroots with the Tea Party and started taking over local, state, and eventually federal level. They gerrymandered the fuck out of this country, and so while the population definitely seems to appear a little more socially liberal, we can't put those type of people into office.
The GOP wins, even as they're dying out.
Just finished listening to it. It really didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know or expect.
I get my prospective of Trump supporters from my immediate family, their friends and people I went to school with that I now - for some reason - follow on Facebook.
Basically, from what I'm seeing and hearing, they are paranoid about another terror attack. And an Islamic terror attack, not some white supremacist/anti-government attack much like the Oklahoma City bombing. When it comes to latter, they're seemingly dumbfounded that it could happen again.
Also, they are terrified that the America they grew up with it slipping away. From old-fashioned patriotism, to the thought of socialism coming to America, to even same-sex marriage and the decline of the White population - America is changing, and they don't want it to change. Voting for Trump was them fighting back.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I don't buy this at all. What do you mean they gave up?
Well the GOP have been gerrymandering for decades. I think the left has to respond to Trump in a very similar way, they have to create a grassroots uprising similar to the tea party, because the left needs an influx of young candidates taking the lead. My fear is that, like the tea party, it will just bring to surface the worst of the left. The bmp(s) if you will.
Last edited:
The Dems seemed to have tunnel vision, only focused on the big prize, the White House. I shouldn't say they gave up, they didn't even try.
The GOP were able to mobilize at the grass roots level, which got them into state houses, and eventually congress.
Democrats don't seem to turn out for the State and Federal level. And I do know that voter ID laws do play a role in that, as does Gerrymandering. But the Gerrymandering tipped towards GOP because they took the power away and now can't give it up.
It's why the Dems seem to only be about moral victories now. "Hey, we only lost by 7 points when Trump carried this state by 30!!!"
The GOP were able to mobilize at the grass roots level, which got them into state houses, and eventually congress.
Democrats don't seem to turn out for the State and Federal level. And I do know that voter ID laws do play a role in that, as does Gerrymandering. But the Gerrymandering tipped towards GOP because they took the power away and now can't give it up.
It's why the Dems seem to only be about moral victories now. "Hey, we only lost by 7 points when Trump carried this state by 30!!!"
The idea that if the Democrats moved left enough they'd suddenly start winning is pretty delusional given the demographics of America, the electoral college and general cultural and social attitudes.
I also consider myself to be liberal but universal income is a terrible idea in my view.
I also consider myself to be liberal but universal income is a terrible idea in my view.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
Universal/single payer health care is something that I think will be achievable in my lifetime. And I think it could be a winning issue for the Dems by 2020.
College, on the other hand, while it might be a good idea, full taxpayer funded tuition seems impossible -- the very people who feel most screwed over by the system and see Trump as a Molotov cocktail aren't going to vote to give free college to middle class kids. That may need an Obamacare type hybrid solution, but I can't see it yet.
Healthcare, however, is used by literally everyone. We start there.
College, on the other hand, while it might be a good idea, full taxpayer funded tuition seems impossible -- the very people who feel most screwed over by the system and see Trump as a Molotov cocktail aren't going to vote to give free college to middle class kids. That may need an Obamacare type hybrid solution, but I can't see it yet.
Healthcare, however, is used by literally everyone. We start there.
College doesn't need to be free. It needs to change. Not everyone needs to go to college after high school. Some can go right to work, apprenticeships, trade schools, etc.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
That's what they do in the UK.
Though judging the way things are in the US, a college degree is becoming increasingly mandatory.
When it started becoming super expensive, everyone needed to go. Funny how that worked.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This
Plus, I haven't met one single supporter of universal income demonstrate that they ACTUALLY understand how it would work in this country.
- Status
Similar threads
