US Politics - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-15-2017, 06:15 PM   #121
War Child
 
TheFox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 763
Local Time: 09:22 PM
It's crazy. It's so blatant what's going on with Russia. You couldn't write a movie script like this.
__________________

TheFox is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 06:41 PM   #122
Refugee
 
kiwilad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Malmsbury Villa
Posts: 1,474
Local Time: 10:22 AM
You could. It just would just appear way too far fetched to be believable
__________________

kiwilad is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 07:47 PM   #123
Blue Crack Addict
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 18,458
Local Time: 05:22 PM
Guys and gals, I would caution throwing hands up at this.

It's sad that this type of intel isn't shared more routinely. Though, I would also say that it's not clear whether or not sensitive or compromising info was included as part of the breach. Needs more info.
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 05-15-2017, 07:53 PM   #124
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
dabiggestu2fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The edge of the known universe
Posts: 3,470
Local Time: 09:22 PM
Dayummm and here I thought last week was a very interesting week in this reality tv show called Trumps administration. It's only Monday and already day one of this week is proving to be a lot more insane than last week! At this rate I am really scared to see what sort of surprises next week holds!
dabiggestu2fan is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:00 PM   #125
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Danny Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up
Posts: 9,562
Local Time: 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
Trump just gives it out for free.
No, he doesn't.

Why did a Russian pay $95M to buy Trump’s Palm Beach mansion? | The Seattle Times
Danny Boy is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:09 PM   #126
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 21,973
Local Time: 04:22 PM
if this had happened a couple months ago i might be suspicious that there were some nefarious things going on. but now i'm convinced that trump is just a fucking inept bumbling dipshit who let the professional diplomats walk all over him and (probably shockingly easily) got him to blab way more than he should have. he's got the brain of a 10 year old boy, he's not pulling off any covert national conspiracy shit - he'd tweet constantly about how stealthy he is and how he has the best secret plans ever ffs.

we'll probably never really know the full impact of this though, if it's as high-level as they say it is. that kind of stuff isn't just enemy troop positions.
DaveC is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:11 PM   #127
Refugee
 
kiwilad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Malmsbury Villa
Posts: 1,474
Local Time: 10:22 AM
Yeah, I agree, except neither was Hilary re emails. Point here is, according to the Guardian, intel operatives have been somewhat exposed and intel allies betrayed. Conspiracy? Mayne not. But bad, all the same
kiwilad is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:17 PM   #128
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 21,973
Local Time: 04:22 PM
my suspicion is that turkey (or the saudis or another gulf state maybe but less likely i think) have someone deep in the inner circle of ISIS and trump shared some intel - the russians probably asked "how do you know this?" and dipshit donnie didn't think for a second before revealing the source. the turks and russians are not friends and never have been so this would *really* piss turkey off to have that revealed to russia. total speculation though.

edit: i missed this in my first skim of the washington post article but this is pretty key info:

Quote:
One day after dismissing Comey, Trump welcomed Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak — a key figure in earlier Russia controversies — into the Oval Office. It was during that meeting, officials said, that Trump went off script and began describing details of an Islamic State terrorist threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft.

For almost anyone in government, discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal. As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.

[...]

In his meeting with Lavrov, Trump seemed to be boasting about his inside knowledge of the looming threat. “I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day,” the president said, according to an official with knowledge of the exchange.

Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat.

The Post is withholding most plot details, including the name of the city, at the urging of officials who warned that revealing them would jeopardize important intelligence capabilities.

[...]

The identification of the location was seen as particularly problematic, officials said, because Russia could use that detail to help identify the U.S. ally or intelligence capability involved. Officials said the capability could be useful for other purposes, possibly providing intelligence on Russia’s presence in Syria. Moscow would be keenly interested in identifying that source and perhaps disrupting it.

Russia and the United States both regard the Islamic State as an enemy and share limited information about terrorist threats. But the two nations have competing agendas in Syria, where Moscow has deployed military assets and personnel to support President Bashar al-Assad.

“Russia could identify our sources or techniques,” the senior U.S. official said.

A former intelligence official who handled high-level intelligence on Russia said that given the clues Trump provided, “I don’t think that it would be that hard [for Russian spy services] to figure this out.”

At a more fundamental level, the information wasn’t the United States’ to provide to others. Under the rules of espionage, governments — and even individual agencies — are given significant control over whether and how the information they gather is disseminated, even after it has been shared. Violating that practice undercuts trust considered essential to sharing secrets.

The officials declined to identify the ally but said it has previously voiced frustration with Washington’s inability to safeguard sensitive information related to Iraq and Syria.
tl;dr - probably not illegal, but definitely fucking stupid.
DaveC is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:26 PM   #129
Blue Crack Supplier
 
dazzledbylight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: in the sound dancing - w Bono & Edge :D
Posts: 34,830
Local Time: 04:22 PM
This time (vs last week when I walked right into the breaking news here in FYM whilst using he library's wifi) I caught the breaking news before I left for the library & WiFi.

What I heard on NPR; the station withheld certain details about what Trump said to the Russian officials. He just started bragging about all this stuff related to this situation/ operation/ or physical thing, software, or a mix of these? I was getting ready to leave ... thus the seemingly now proverbial - "wait, what?!" response while checking my tote bag etc, so I wasn't 100% clear which the above was.

According to one person The President can declassify anything (because he is The President).

OTOH a person also pointed out that this particular intelligence was given to us by an ally, so it might not have been the right thing to do to disclosure it.

Arggggggg!
dazzledbylight is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:29 PM   #130
Blue Crack Addict
 
DaveC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: nazi punks fuck off
Posts: 21,973
Local Time: 04:22 PM
DaveC is offline  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:24 PM   #131
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,205
Local Time: 04:22 PM
I absolutely believe that there are treasonous elements of the Trump administration/campaign. I think the facts will bare that out, if they haven't already.

What I don't know is if this all occurred because the President is complicit, or because the President is just really fucking dumb. And I'm not sure which is worse.
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 05-16-2017, 01:52 AM   #132
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
Vincent Vega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Berlin
Posts: 6,729
Local Time: 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Guys and gals, I would caution throwing hands up at this.

It's sad that this type of intel isn't shared more routinely. Though, I would also say that it's not clear whether or not sensitive or compromising info was included as part of the breach. Needs more info.
As the article mentions, there's intel sharing between Russia and the US to some degree.
However, the Russians are not a trustworthy partner at all, so sharing of intelligence beyond information on ISIS positions, movements or troop strengths is absolutely reckless.
Yet, even on this level the US should tread very carefully. Russia is extremely cynical about ISIS, supporting Assad's tactic of keeping them at bay just enough not to be losing any troops or coming under threat themselves, while otherwise leaving the group largely alone. ISIS is key to both Russia and Assad in keeping alive the narrative that they are just fighting a jihadi takeover, and that strategy hasn't changed.

If he indeed shared information (McMaster denies that*) which came from another service, that the Russians could use to their advantage in ways that won't benefit either the US nor the country whose spy it is, this is a serious breach of trust, with possibly far-fetching consequences. If the country is Turkey, my guess is Russia will rather not take action that might endanger the source. On the other hand, if that country turned out to be Saudi-Arabia, Russia might have less qualms about exploiting it in any way they see fit.

How embarrassing that someone thinks he can brag about "great people" who give him lots of information to seasoned politicians such as Lavrov and Kislyak.

* An assessment of the wording of McMaster's denial and a first broad legal analysis of Trump's alleged breach can be found here: https://lawfareblog.com/bombshell-in...changing-story
Vincent Vega is offline  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:42 AM   #133
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,370
Local Time: 07:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
if this had happened a couple months ago i might be suspicious that there were some nefarious things going on. but now i'm convinced that trump is just a fucking inept bumbling dipshit who let the professional diplomats walk all over him and (probably shockingly easily) got him to blab way more than he should have. he's got the brain of a 10 year old boy, he's not pulling off any covert national conspiracy shit - he'd tweet constantly about how stealthy he is and how he has the best secret plans ever ffs.

we'll probably never really know the full impact of this though, if it's as high-level as they say it is. that kind of stuff isn't just enemy troop positions.
I'm leaning the same way too, the man is just a massive fucking imbecile and it's embarrassing how the Democrats actually lost to him. He's at Boris Yeltsin levels of being a fuck up, but at least Yeltsin could have used his own alcoholism as an excuse.
Vlad n U 2 is offline  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:47 AM   #134
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
nielsgov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Belgium
Posts: 8,740
Local Time: 10:22 PM
It's actually crazy how someone so dumb can get so far in life. It shows what money can do I guess.
nielsgov is offline  
Old 05-16-2017, 06:07 AM   #135
Blue Crack Addict
 
Vlad n U 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 28,370
Local Time: 07:52 AM
Inheriting the wealth he did counts for an awful lot ...
Vlad n U 2 is offline  
Old 05-16-2017, 06:36 AM   #136
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,205
Local Time: 04:22 PM
I remember discussing the election with someone who's worked with Trump on a few projects, who's a liberal, and who rebuked me immediately when I talked of how stupid Trump was. He agreed he was a con man, but was adamant that he was one of the sharpest persons he's ever worked with.

So I suppose there's that third side... That this was supposed to be just another grand con that went further than Trump ever imagined... that he allowed certain elements in because he never thought he'd ever actually win, and didn't really want to win just wanted to further his brand... and that he's been trying to self sabatoge at points along the way and it just simply hasn't worked. Heck, you could make some pretty solid points on how he's still trying to self sabatoge to get out of this.


Whatever it is... idiot, traitor or publicity stunt gone way way too far... somehow, someway it needs to come to an end. And soon.
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:43 AM   #137
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
I remember discussing the election with someone who's worked with Trump on a few projects, who's a liberal, and who rebuked me immediately when I talked of how stupid Trump was. He agreed he was a con man, but was adamant that he was one of the sharpest persons he's ever worked with.
It's also highly possible/likely that he is experiencing old-age dementia, or plain old senility. This is a fairly elderly man with unhealthy eating habits who proclaims that he only wants/needs 3-4 hours of sleep a night. Which is to be believed given that he tweets pretty much 24/7. Even in a healthy young adult this would lead to cognitive impairment, but in somebody of his age, it's even worse. I was a full time caretaker for a grandmother with Alzheimers for the last 7 or so years of her life (last 2 were in a specialized Alzheimer's home/unit for safety reasons) and I don't think that he shows signs of Alzheimer's at all but the way he speaks and repeats himself and repeats a very simple sentence structure over and over and is unable to stay on topic is highly suggestive of a person of advanced age who is experiencing some cognitive impairment.
anitram is offline  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:04 AM   #138
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,205
Local Time: 04:22 PM
So we're up to 4 distinct, realistic possibilities...

1) treason
2) sheer incompetence and/or stupidity
3) publicity stunt​ gone wayyyyy too far that he can't seem to get out of no matter how hard he tries
4) mental illness / cognitive impairment


Makes you all warm and fuzzy inside.
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:06 AM   #139
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
So we're up to 4 distinct, realistic possibilities...

1) treason
2) sheer incompetence and/or stupidity
3) publicity stunt​ gone wayyyyy too far that he can't seem to get out of no matter how hard he tries
4) mental illness / cognitive impairment


Makes you all warm and fuzzy inside.

'Merica!
Diemen is offline  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:09 AM   #140
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: DC
Posts: 68,205
Local Time: 04:22 PM
Imagine one day he just snaps from the pressure?

"What the fuck is wrong with you people? How could you not see through this bullshit? I was TRYING to lose and TRYING to get impeached, and you assholes couldn't even get THAT done???"
__________________

Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×