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It's crazy. It's so blatant what's going on with Russia. You couldn't write a movie script like this.
 
Guys and gals, I would caution throwing hands up at this.

It's sad that this type of intel isn't shared more routinely. Though, I would also say that it's not clear whether or not sensitive or compromising info was included as part of the breach. Needs more info.
 
Dayummm and here I thought last week was a very interesting week in this reality tv show called Trumps administration. It's only Monday and already day one of this week is proving to be a lot more insane than last week! At this rate I am really scared to see what sort of surprises next week holds!
 
if this had happened a couple months ago i might be suspicious that there were some nefarious things going on. but now i'm convinced that trump is just a fucking inept bumbling dipshit who let the professional diplomats walk all over him and (probably shockingly easily) got him to blab way more than he should have. he's got the brain of a 10 year old boy, he's not pulling off any covert national conspiracy shit - he'd tweet constantly about how stealthy he is and how he has the best secret plans ever ffs.

we'll probably never really know the full impact of this though, if it's as high-level as they say it is. that kind of stuff isn't just enemy troop positions.
 
Yeah, I agree, except neither was Hilary re emails. Point here is, according to the Guardian, intel operatives have been somewhat exposed and intel allies betrayed. Conspiracy? Mayne not. But bad, all the same
 
my suspicion is that turkey (or the saudis or another gulf state maybe but less likely i think) have someone deep in the inner circle of ISIS and trump shared some intel - the russians probably asked "how do you know this?" and dipshit donnie didn't think for a second before revealing the source. the turks and russians are not friends and never have been so this would *really* piss turkey off to have that revealed to russia. total speculation though.

edit: i missed this in my first skim of the washington post article but this is pretty key info:

One day after dismissing Comey, Trump welcomed Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak — a key figure in earlier Russia controversies — into the Oval Office. It was during that meeting, officials said, that Trump went off script and began describing details of an Islamic State terrorist threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft.

For almost anyone in government, discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal. As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.

[...]

In his meeting with Lavrov, Trump seemed to be boasting about his inside knowledge of the looming threat. “I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day,” the president said, according to an official with knowledge of the exchange.

Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat.

The Post is withholding most plot details, including the name of the city, at the urging of officials who warned that revealing them would jeopardize important intelligence capabilities.

[...]

The identification of the location was seen as particularly problematic, officials said, because Russia could use that detail to help identify the U.S. ally or intelligence capability involved. Officials said the capability could be useful for other purposes, possibly providing intelligence on Russia’s presence in Syria. Moscow would be keenly interested in identifying that source and perhaps disrupting it.

Russia and the United States both regard the Islamic State as an enemy and share limited information about terrorist threats. But the two nations have competing agendas in Syria, where Moscow has deployed military assets and personnel to support President Bashar al-Assad.

“Russia could identify our sources or techniques,” the senior U.S. official said.

A former intelligence official who handled high-level intelligence on Russia said that given the clues Trump provided, “I don’t think that it would be that hard [for Russian spy services] to figure this out.”

At a more fundamental level, the information wasn’t the United States’ to provide to others. Under the rules of espionage, governments — and even individual agencies — are given significant control over whether and how the information they gather is disseminated, even after it has been shared. Violating that practice undercuts trust considered essential to sharing secrets.

The officials declined to identify the ally but said it has previously voiced frustration with Washington’s inability to safeguard sensitive information related to Iraq and Syria.
Click to expand...

tl;dr - probably not illegal, but definitely fucking stupid.
 
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This time (vs last week when I walked right into the breaking news here in FYM whilst using he library's wifi) I caught the breaking news before I left for the library & WiFi.

What I heard on NPR; the station withheld certain details about what Trump said to the Russian officials. He just started bragging about all this stuff related to this situation/ operation/ or physical thing, software, or a mix of these? I was getting ready to leave ... thus the seemingly now proverbial - "wait, what?!" response while checking my tote bag etc, so I wasn't 100% clear which the above was.

According to one person The President can declassify anything (because he is The President).

OTOH a person also pointed out that this particular intelligence was given to us by an ally, so it might not have been the right thing to do to disclosure it. :huh:

Arggggggg!:crack:
 
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I absolutely believe that there are treasonous elements of the Trump administration/campaign. I think the facts will bare that out, if they haven't already.

What I don't know is if this all occurred because the President is complicit, or because the President is just really fucking dumb. And I'm not sure which is worse.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
Guys and gals, I would caution throwing hands up at this.

It's sad that this type of intel isn't shared more routinely. Though, I would also say that it's not clear whether or not sensitive or compromising info was included as part of the breach. Needs more info.
Click to expand...

As the article mentions, there's intel sharing between Russia and the US to some degree.
However, the Russians are not a trustworthy partner at all, so sharing of intelligence beyond information on ISIS positions, movements or troop strengths is absolutely reckless.
Yet, even on this level the US should tread very carefully. Russia is extremely cynical about ISIS, supporting Assad's tactic of keeping them at bay just enough not to be losing any troops or coming under threat themselves, while otherwise leaving the group largely alone. ISIS is key to both Russia and Assad in keeping alive the narrative that they are just fighting a jihadi takeover, and that strategy hasn't changed.

If he indeed shared information (McMaster denies that*) which came from another service, that the Russians could use to their advantage in ways that won't benefit either the US nor the country whose spy it is, this is a serious breach of trust, with possibly far-fetching consequences. If the country is Turkey, my guess is Russia will rather not take action that might endanger the source. On the other hand, if that country turned out to be Saudi-Arabia, Russia might have less qualms about exploiting it in any way they see fit.

How embarrassing that someone thinks he can brag about "great people" who give him lots of information to seasoned politicians such as Lavrov and Kislyak.

* An assessment of the wording of McMaster's denial and a first broad legal analysis of Trump's alleged breach can be found here: https://lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washington-posts-game-changing-story
 
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DaveC said:
if this had happened a couple months ago i might be suspicious that there were some nefarious things going on. but now i'm convinced that trump is just a fucking inept bumbling dipshit who let the professional diplomats walk all over him and (probably shockingly easily) got him to blab way more than he should have. he's got the brain of a 10 year old boy, he's not pulling off any covert national conspiracy shit - he'd tweet constantly about how stealthy he is and how he has the best secret plans ever ffs.

we'll probably never really know the full impact of this though, if it's as high-level as they say it is. that kind of stuff isn't just enemy troop positions.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning the same way too, the man is just a massive fucking imbecile and it's embarrassing how the Democrats actually lost to him. He's at Boris Yeltsin levels of being a fuck up, but at least Yeltsin could have used his own alcoholism as an excuse.
 
It's actually crazy how someone so dumb can get so far in life. It shows what money can do I guess.
 
I remember discussing the election with someone who's worked with Trump on a few projects, who's a liberal, and who rebuked me immediately when I talked of how stupid Trump was. He agreed he was a con man, but was adamant that he was one of the sharpest persons he's ever worked with.

So I suppose there's that third side... That this was supposed to be just another grand con that went further than Trump ever imagined... that he allowed certain elements in because he never thought he'd ever actually win, and didn't really want to win just wanted to further his brand... and that he's been trying to self sabatoge at points along the way and it just simply hasn't worked. Heck, you could make some pretty solid points on how he's still trying to self sabatoge to get out of this.


Whatever it is... idiot, traitor or publicity stunt gone way way too far... somehow, someway it needs to come to an end. And soon.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
I remember discussing the election with someone who's worked with Trump on a few projects, who's a liberal, and who rebuked me immediately when I talked of how stupid Trump was. He agreed he was a con man, but was adamant that he was one of the sharpest persons he's ever worked with.
Click to expand...

It's also highly possible/likely that he is experiencing old-age dementia, or plain old senility. This is a fairly elderly man with unhealthy eating habits who proclaims that he only wants/needs 3-4 hours of sleep a night. Which is to be believed given that he tweets pretty much 24/7. Even in a healthy young adult this would lead to cognitive impairment, but in somebody of his age, it's even worse. I was a full time caretaker for a grandmother with Alzheimers for the last 7 or so years of her life (last 2 were in a specialized Alzheimer's home/unit for safety reasons) and I don't think that he shows signs of Alzheimer's at all but the way he speaks and repeats himself and repeats a very simple sentence structure over and over and is unable to stay on topic is highly suggestive of a person of advanced age who is experiencing some cognitive impairment.
 
Where is Ivanka? I thought she and the husband were widely seen as some sort of stabilizing factors. Have they given up? Is she back to shilling cheap purses?

In truth we (the world) are being held hostage to Paul Ryan's obsessive compulsive need for tax cuts. So long as Trump is a useful idiot for this purpose nothing will change. After the tax cuts are in place, what little need they had for him will expire and then it'll be like a snake devouring its own tail just in time for the 2018 primaries.
 
anitram said:
Where is Ivanka? I thought she and the husband were widely seen as some sort of stabilizing factors. Have they given up? Is she back to shilling cheap purses?

In truth we (the world) are being held hostage to Paul Ryan's obsessive compulsive need for tax cuts. So long as Trump is a useful idiot for this purpose nothing will change. After the tax cuts are in place, what little need they had for him will expire and then it'll be like a snake devouring its own tail just in time for the 2018 primaries.
Click to expand...
#TeamKush is definitely not trying to capitalize on their new found power with favorable real estate deals in China. No ma'am, not them. Not at all.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Imagine one day he just snaps from the pressure?

"What the fuck is wrong with you people? How could you not see through this bullshit? I was TRYING to lose and TRYING to get impeached, and you assholes couldn't even get THAT done???"
Click to expand...



I was really hoping that upon election he betrayed his voters and told them they're all assholes for voting for him and Donald ended up winning a nobel peace prize for making an example of many bad people.

It might be a royal flush of expectations, but, well, you know.
 
I don't get the idea that GOP are using Trump to get what they want.

If trump is impeached or resigns or whatever, Pence is in charge. Pence will go along with the same ideas and legislation
 
BEAL said:
I don't get the idea that GOP are using Trump to get what they want.

If trump is impeached or resigns or whatever, Pence is in charge. Pence will go along with the same ideas and legislation
Click to expand...

I don't think that Trump will get impeached, the Republicans don't put country before agenda.

But they will disavow him and run in the opposite direction in 2020 IF he even decides to run again. That would be quite a commitment for a lazy person like him. Mike Pence will be cooked along with him - he has little to no charisma of his own, and if Trump bows out or the Republicans smell blood in the water you'll have a primary of 20 people all over again.
 
I would think that the GOP would be wise to get rid of Trump now, let Pence take over and try to save some face for 2018, and 2020

By holding on, they're going to sink with the administration.
 
Then Paul Ryan is in.

I think it's more they are so incompetent that they can't do anything without falling over or fucking up. One thing Trump has done is take all the focus away from the disastrous healthcare bill, which I can't see being made better by Senate.
 
BEAL said:
I don't get the idea that GOP are using Trump to get what they want.

If trump is impeached or resigns or whatever, Pence is in charge. Pence will go along with the same ideas and legislation
Click to expand...



but 88% of GOP voters approve of Trump, not Pence. don't want them to get all backstabby because you took out their man.
 
Do they really?

And I wonder what % of those 88% only support him because he pisses of libtards?
 
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