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Old 06-07-2017, 08:17 PM   #681
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And I'll just say that's a great example of the instinct to defend Clinton when she deserves no defense.
oh come on. you blatantly baited that out of him. get off your high horse.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:25 PM   #682
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:28 PM   #683
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really? that's "unthinkable"?


Yes it is. Go read their statements after major attacks in the US.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:34 PM   #684
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I don't think the things Sanders were talking about are particularly hard to implement (in terms of functional complication, not political) and the fact that he didn't go into great detail didn't bother me or make me think it was any less possible.

Ace in the hole is overstating things, but they looked at the sudden groundswell of support for Sanders as a pure nuisance rather than an opportunity, which was a mistake.

And I'll just say that's a great example of the instinct to defend Clinton when she deserves no defense.


The majority of people when looking at fundamentally drastic change will need detail and understanding, that's human nature.

Trump didn't need detail because he was selling fundamentally drastic change back to a time that his followers thought they knew.

I agree the DNC's not recognizing there was opportunity to explore was a mistake.

And no, do not mistaken my respect for context and not condemning a person for something they didn't actively sought out as an "instinct to defend". If anything it says more about your instinct. You are condemning a wife of someone within an institution that continued a practice to which you have very little context. If it was anyone else you'd never even think of holding her somehow accountable.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:38 PM   #685
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my thoughts exactly.

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Yes it is. Go read their statements after major attacks in the US.
sure thing:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklaho...ional_reaction

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Iran condemned the bombing as an attack on innocent people, but also blamed the U.S. government's policies for inciting it.
the immediate reaction to 9/11 was gracious, and then ahmedinejad spent his entire term claiming it was a conspiracy. he openly expressed happiness at the 2008 economic crash and hoped it was the "collapse of liberalism".

i doubt rouhani would actually do that, but it's hardly "unthinkable".
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:55 PM   #686
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.b91503a18dfa

he's going to live-tweet during comey's testimony. can't wait to see how he incriminates himself even more
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:04 PM   #687
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:24 PM   #688
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“He’s infuriated at a deep-gut, personal level that the elite media has tolerated [the Russia story] and praised Comey,” former House speaker Newt Gingrich said.
Awwwww, poor Trump. How dare the media actually do its job and investigate things this administration's done that seem suspicious or questionable.

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Trump’s team is preparing a campaign-style line of attack aimed at undercutting Comey’s reputation. They plan to portray him as a “showboat” and to bring up past controversies from his career, including his handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation in 2016
Something which they totally had no complaints with whatsoever until now. How convenient.

Also, if his staff and lawyers are so worried about him tweeting, why are they still allowing him to have a Twitter account at all? They've limited his Twitter access before, after all, so it's not like they can't do it now. You'd think somebody would've taken control of Trump's account on his behalf by now.

It's rather telling to see how nervous everyone in the White House appears to be in general right now, too. Yeah. Tomorrow could be quite interesting.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:28 PM   #689
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The majority of people when looking at fundamentally drastic change will need detail and understanding, that's human nature.

Trump didn't need detail because he was selling fundamentally drastic change back to a time that his followers thought they knew.

.


That's actually a good point, IMO. Trump played on the fears of people and promised to return to a fantasy land. It was familiar. It's always comforting to think of a simpler time versus the change of the future.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:20 PM   #690
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I think Sanders and Corbyn lost largely because of the same thing. They figured out how to get their messages through too late and ran out of time. Sanders never pieced together how to run a national campaign. The only thing I blame the DNC for is not recognizing an ace in the hole when they had one. While I think this board is almost hilariously willing to apologize for Clinton and moderate Dems (I'm sure I'd be run out of here with pitchforks if I were to bring up Clinton using prison labor in the Arkansas Governor's mansion), I don't think it was a conspiracy that kept Sanders from winning. I just think Democrats don't value the right things because they're uninterested in tackling the real problem of reshaping the economy. And it trickles down into so many of their continued failures in recent years.
I've seen quite a spirited defence of this by the usual suspects online - on Twitter mostly, but I can't say I am surprised. There is a particular brand of Hillary supporter online which rejects all criticism of her actions/words (quite prevalent in the pundit class too) and in some cases involving more frothing about the "Bernie Bros". It's disappointing, to put it kindly.

On your other point, I would also say that one of Corbyn's main issues has been contending with a hostile, and almost uniformly right wing media class and it's played a part in hampering his time in opposition. It's a land where the idea of free school meals for children is treated as extremism, but gutting public services for the masses is sensible. In addition, he's had to spend an awful lot of time fighting off right wingers in his own party.
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:50 PM   #691
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This whole thing with Qatar and Iran should be way more of a story than it is, IMO. We're basically abandoning one of our bases, and victim blaming a country for coming under a terrorist attack for a group *THEY DON'T SUPPORT*. Holy shit, we're back to pre-Obama level's of government ignorance of the Muslim religion and it's beyond baffling at this point that we still don't know the difference between Sunni's and Shia's.

Fuck.
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:03 AM   #692
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
This whole thing with Qatar and Iran should be way more of a story than it is, IMO. We're basically abandoning one of our bases, and victim blaming a country for coming under a terrorist attack for a group *THEY DON'T SUPPORT*. Holy shit, we're back to pre-Obama level's of government ignorance of the Muslim religion and it's beyond baffling at this point that we still don't know the difference between Sunni's and Shia's.

Fuck.

Personally I thought it was hilarious that Orange Donnie tried to take credit for something that turned out to be a reaction to fake news, but yeah this administration's foreign policy is a disaster. But so is their domestic policy, so...
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:27 AM   #693
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This whole thing with Qatar and Iran should be way more of a story than it is, IMO. We're basically abandoning one of our bases, and victim blaming a country for coming under a terrorist attack for a group *THEY DON'T SUPPORT*. Holy shit, we're back to pre-Obama level's of government ignorance of the Muslim religion and it's beyond baffling at this point that we still don't know the difference between Sunni's and Shia's.

Fuck.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:30 AM   #694
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Corbyn lost
wtf? we haven't actually had the election yet! or have i overslept big time and missed a whole day?
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Old 06-08-2017, 07:39 AM   #695
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PhilsFan kind of predicted Le Penn too, so let's hope he's wrong with Corbyn as well.

But the LP statement was more made in jest.

As for Trump, we need to move off the impeachment talk and really hope he just gets too tired to do the job and resigns.

That's best case. Worst case is his dumbfuckery starts a god damn world war.

I don't know a ton about Iran, but from what I've read (here and elsewhere) is you have a very extremist older generation, which holds power. Then you have younger generation who seem to be much more liberal in their views and lives. The thought is Iran is only another generation or two from changing, and maybe for the better.

Then you have the Orange one who basically says fuck you iran, you did this to yourself.

He's building more and more hate
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:06 AM   #696
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PhilsFan kind of predicted Le Penn too, so let's hope he's wrong with Corbyn as well.

But the LP statement was more made in jest.

As for Trump, we need to move off the impeachment talk and really hope he just gets too tired to do the job and resigns.

That's best case. Worst case is his dumbfuckery starts a god damn world war.

I don't know a ton about Iran, but from what I've read (here and elsewhere) is you have a very extremist older generation, which holds power. Then you have younger generation who seem to be much more liberal in their views and lives. The thought is Iran is only another generation or two from changing, and maybe for the better.

Then you have the Orange one who basically says fuck you iran, you did this to yourself.

He's building more and more hate


He must be a wizard, considering Le Pen was a media manufactured "close race."

Labour has been trailing significantly. It would be a welcomed surprise, were they to win today.
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Old 06-08-2017, 09:50 AM   #697
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The majority of people when looking at fundamentally drastic change will need detail and understanding, that's human nature.

Trump didn't need detail because he was selling fundamentally drastic change back to a time that his followers thought they knew.

I agree the DNC's not recognizing there was opportunity to explore was a mistake.

And no, do not mistaken my respect for context and not condemning a person for something they didn't actively sought out as an "instinct to defend". If anything it says more about your instinct. You are condemning a wife of someone within an institution that continued a practice to which you have very little context. If it was anyone else you'd never even think of holding her somehow accountable.
Increasing taxes on the rich is something we should all get behind. Recognizing how much impact economic inequality has on literally everything should be something we all get behind. He was the only candidate pushing for those things. I don't hero worship Sanders, or anyone in politics. I don't believe in purity tests; if I did, Sanders wouldn't pass. But even if no one had all the answers, he was the only candidate in 2016 asking the right questions.

I'm not going to get into this on the Clinton governor mansion thing, because that was not my intention, but I strongly, strongly disagree and resent the implication I'm holding her to a different standard than others.

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my thoughts exactly.
Thanks for your input.
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:58 AM   #698
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Increasing taxes on the rich is something we should all get behind. Recognizing how much impact economic inequality has on literally everything should be something we all get behind. He was the only candidate pushing for those things. I don't hero worship Sanders, or anyone in politics. I don't believe in purity tests; if I did, Sanders wouldn't pass. But even if no one had all the answers, he was the only candidate in 2016 asking the right questions.
It's not just the rich, though. If a lot of these social goals that people on the "left" profess to care about are going to be met, it will mean higher taxes on middle and upper middle-class people as well. IMO that is the real thing that scared people away from Bernie, whether they want to admit it or not: people say they want a left-leaning state so long as someone else pays for it, usually everyone just above their pay grade. It can't just be the rich, because in practice they have every incentive and resource in the world to disguise, launder, or shield their income. It will need to be a group financial effort. This is how European states do it, and there is really no way around it economically.

And I really don't believe as BVS keeps saying that lack of "specifics" was Sanders' problem. Him coming out with a detailed deadweight loss analysis or something like that was not going to win him a significant amount of voters.
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:02 PM   #699
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Robert Reich has a pretty good assessment of what's happening today, as no one in town is getting any work done:

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I’m in Washington today. Here’s what I’m finding:
1. The mood in the city is the same combination of jubilation and dread I recall just before the Watergate hearings over 4 decades ago, among Republicans as well as Democrats.
2. The jubilation is that, with Comey’s testimony, the nation seems to be moving into a new phase of scrutiny of Trump, who, like Nixon, looks increasingly cornered and desperate.
3. The dread is at what a cornered and desperate Trump might get up to next.
4. I don’t know anyone in the Trump White House, but I’ve spoken with some people who do. They tell me the White House is split between a few Trump loyalists who are at war with almost everyone else in this town, and others who are looking for ways to bail out.
5. Congressional watchers here say there’s zero chance Paul Ryan’s House will move toward an impeachment inquiry, regardless of what Comey says.
6. This raises the stakes for the midterm elections next year, which most people here are already viewing as a referendum on whether to Trump remains in office.
7. This, in turn, is making it harder for congressional Republicans who are likely to be in close races to defend Trump.
8. And it’s putting ever more pressure on congressional Democrats to publicly declare that Trump should be impeached, even though Democratic leaders are trying to discourage such talk.
9. Meanwhile, nothing is moving on Capitol Hill. Senate Republicans can't agree on a replacement for the Affordable Care Act. House Republicans can't agree on a tax cut. At the same time, civil servants in executive branch agencies and departments -- who do most of the day-to-day work of government -- are understaffed, overwhelmed, confused, and wary.
10. Bottom line: Washington under Trump is more dysfunctional than I've ever seen it. And that's saying something.
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:08 PM   #700
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IMO that is the real thing that scared people away from Bernie, whether they want to admit it or not: people say they want a left-leaning state so long as someone else pays for it, usually everyone just above their pay grade.

why do you think this is?
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