US 2008 Presidential Campaign Thread - Part 2

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2861U2 said:


Based on what? Polls show Republicans only a few points behind her, and I'm sure I don't need to mention the Zogby poll showing Hillary losing to 5 Republicans.

Polls show who, all Reps only a few points behind her?

Plus let's not forget exit polls showed that Kerry would win last election.
 
we are still very, very early.

but there's no question that things are trending Blue. and even if the Dems lose the White House, they are posed to make even bigger gains in both houses of Congress.
 
2861U2 said:


Giuliani and McCain are pretty close to her, Romney is back aways.


:huh: Ok, so how does that contradict what I said? Only one will get the nom, and Giuliani has way too many skeletons in his closet. And Mitt, well I think he doesn't have a chance in hell; wrong religion, has flip flopped too much, and may even prove to be too bigoted even for the Republican party.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Giuliani has way too many skeletons in his closet.

I'd say he and Hillary are about even in that department.


Romney would be a longshot if he's the nominee. I like him fine enough, but we're in trouble if he gets the nomination. I'd even say Huckabee has a better chance than Mitt does.
 
2861U2 said:


I'd say he and Hillary are about even in that department.

:eyebrow:

In what world are you living in? There is no way a "family values" platform can nominate this guy.

How has Hillary gone against her platform the way Guiliani has?
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Plus let's not forget exit polls showed that Kerry would win last election.

Good point.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of people are too keen on Romney. I could see Huckabee winning the nomination, or perhaps Giuliani. Ron Paul has no chance in hell, sadly.

I don't care, though-out of the remaining people, whoever wins the Republican nomination, I sincerely hope they don't win the White House next year. I really see Clinton taking it. I'd like it if Obama became the Democratic nominee and won the White House, but Clinton looks most likely.

All that said, if it comes down to Clinton vs. whoever becomes the Republican nominee. I'm definitely voting independent next year.

Angela
 
I was watching TV earlier, and they were describing how it might end up being a Giuliani-Huckabee ticket. They said that it is looking more and more like Huckabee will win Iowa, Rudy will win NH, Huckabee goes straight to SC and knocks out Fred and the others, Rudy wins the later big states and feels like he owes Huckabee something. It would be quite a pair- a big city guy, somewhat liberal on social issues and a southern hardcore conservative minister.

:drool: :drool:
 
2861U2 said:
It would be quite a pair- a big city guy, somewhat liberal on social issues and a southern hardcore conservative minister.

:drool: :drool:

Liberal on social issues? Where have you been? He sold out to the bigots a long time ago and flip flopped his stances so he could get Robertson's endorement.
 
All I know is that the Republicans are rooting for Hillary to win the Dem nomination. I think her presence on the democratic ticket would mobilize Republican voters more than any other potential candidate. So, uh, go Obama!
 
i tuned in late, so i missed the veteran's question and the responses. but i did see a few bits. i had to turn the tv off though, because i was too creeped out. romney had basically said the confederate flag represented hatred, and not a single person in there applauded. what decade are we living in again? that pretty much answered the question by the black guy "why don't we vote for you?"


don't ask why i am awake at this hour :crack:
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:
He sold out to the bigots a long time ago and flip flopped his stances so he could get Robertson's endorement.

Which makes him possibly the most despicable of all of the Republican candidates.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Is everyone sufficiently creeped out/annoyed now by Mitt's smirk? Or do you need more? :wink:
What creeped me out more was Huckabee's entire debate persona. Of all the candidates up there, he was the one who I'd seen the least of, and he just comes off completely rehearsed and fake on every comment he makes. Whether or not it's genuine sentiment he was just creeping me out nonetheless. It's a live event, not a goddamned multiple-take political ad.

Other thoughts:

*Don't like McCain much since he lost his grip on reality a couple of years ago (what the fuck happened to him, he used to be on top of everything???). That said, it was GREAT to see him wipe Mitt all over the deck regarding waterboarding. I despise torture, think it's disgraceful that the US practices waterboarding, and to see him batter Romney over the issue was debate bliss.

*Paul wasn't as strong as he usually is in public forums. He wasn't allowed a lot of time to speak, though.

*This was my first chance to see Romney in a debate, and he's quite good at what he does. Comes off very.........vice presidential. Not presidential, though, only vice.
 
Last night I have to say I got angriest and started yelling at the TV when the issue of "Don't Ask Don't Tell" came up with the retired officer.

Friggin homophobes. I was disgusted by their responses.
 
Thankfully at that point I had to go meet with a study group so I had to turn it off anyway :angry:

People probably thought I was :coocoo: because I was yelling all sorts of obscenities at the TV...:uhoh:
 
Wow, Romney said that the Confederate flag represented hatred? There goes the conservative Southern vote. You wouldn't believe how many rednecks have Confederate flags as bumperstickers. There are other bumperstickers that say "hell, no, I ain't forgetting".
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


:huh: Ok, so how does that contradict what I said? Only one will get the nom, and Giuliani has way too many skeletons in his closet. And Mitt, well I think he doesn't have a chance in hell; wrong religion, has flip flopped too much, and may even prove to be too bigoted even for the Republican party.

Giuliani really does have skeletons in his closet. I just saw an article about him charging travel expenses to the City of New York. That will catch up with him.
 
I don't mind religious candidates. Hell, Jimmy Carter is a born-again Christian, and I think he's great. It's when they force their views on the general public that I object to religion. This is what I think Bush and Co. are doing what with this ban on gay marriage and not letting foreign aid go for birth control stuff. They don't realize that overpopulation is a major problem.
 
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unico said:


it takes one to vote for one? :shrug:

I know, but the American ideal is about equality and freedom. That's what we fight for and try to uphold, and to allow another American to be subjected to discrimination is wrong.

I don't know how they can justify it to themselves, especially given that the same excuses were used for discrimination in the past, and we're still trying to deal with the consequences of that.
 
martha said:
I really don't know how any American can seriously consider voting for any of these clowns who still think it's acceptable to discriminate against gay soldiers. I just don't get it.

Me either. I'm glad that Romney is different.
 
martha said:


I know, but the American ideal is about equality and freedom. That's what we fight for and try to uphold, and to allow another American to be subjected to discrimination is wrong.

I don't know how they can justify it to themselves, especially given that the same excuses were used for discrimination in the past, and we're still trying to deal with the consequences of that.

agreed. i think it is BS that they'll let them risk their lives in harms way while serving their country, yet when they come back home they're treated like shit, discriminated, and denied rights.

sounds familiar :hmm:
 
martha said:

I don't know how they can justify it to themselves,

I ask this question almost everyday... Still haven't found the answer, it's especially frustrating when it comes out of someone's mouth who claims to be a "person of God". Unfortunately we see it all the time, even in here.
 
Well rather than be disgusted at their responses, now they have made it an issue that the General is involved with Hillary's campaign. Romney's response about waterboarding was pathetic too, especially when accompanied by the smirk. If he thought changing his position regarding gays in the military would get him elected he'd probably do it. "Times have changed"-what does that mean? Has he already changed his mind? Looks like he's more in favor of don't ask don't tell.

Gay question' general linked to Clinton
By: Kenneth P. Vogel politico.com
November 29, 2007 12:54 PM EST

The retired general who asked about gays and lesbians serving in the military at the CNN/YouTube Republican debate on Wednesday is a co-chairman of Hillary Rodham Clinton's National Military Veterans group.

Retired Brig. Gen. Keith H. Kerr was named a co-chairman of the group this month, according to a campaign press release.

He was also active in John F. Kerry's 2004 campaign for president.

Kerr asked candidates “why you think that American men and women in uniform are not professional enough to serve with gays and lesbians.”

After the debate, former Education Secretary Bill Bennett said on a CNN panel that he was being told Kerr was involved with the Democratic presidential campaign of Clinton, a New York senator.

CNN anchor Anderson Cooper, who moderated the debate and the panel, said that if that was the case, CNN should have identified Kerr as such.


David Bohrman, a CNN senior vice president and executive producer of the debate, later said: "We regret this and apologize to the Republican candidates. We never would have used the general's question had we known that he was connected to any presidential candidate."

Kerr told CNN that he had not done work for the Clinton campaign, and CNN verified before the debate that he had not contributed money to any candidate, the broadcaster said in a blog post after the debate.

Kerr told CNN he is a member of the Log Cabin Republicans and was representing no one other than himself, CNN said.

On Thursday, Clinton campaign spokesman Phil Singer said the retired general "is not a campaign employee and was not acting on behalf of the campaign."

A Nov. 11 press release retrieved from the website of the nonpartisan magazine Campaigns & Elections lists Kerr as one of nearly 50 co-chairs of “Veterans and Military Retirees for Hillary."

Clinton’s campaign did not respond to an e-mail asking about Kerr’s role in her campaign or whether he was acting on behalf of the campaign.

Kerr also was on Kerry’s National Veterans Steering Committee, according to a campaign press release retrieved from the website of George Washington University.

And Kerr appears to be an active opponent of the U.S. military’s current stance on gays and lesbians serving in the military, known as the "don’t ask, don’t tell" policy.

He appeared on the now-defunct CNN partner network CNNfn in December 2003 to discuss the 10th anniversary of the policy. According to a transcript, he called it “a tremendous waste of personnel, a tremendous waste of financial resources for the United States.”

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.), the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee, got first crack at Kerr’s question. He said he thought having openly gay men and lesbian women in the military “would be bad for unit cohesion.”

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, answering next, basically agreed.

Cooper then singled out former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, who in 1994 said he looked forward to the day gays and lesbians could serve openly in the military.

Romney said times have changed. Though he said he laughed when he first heard talk of the don’t ask, don’t tell policy, and didn’t think it would work, he said: “You know what? It’s been there now for 15 years, and it seems to have worked.”

Cooper then turned to Kerr and asked whether he felt he got an answer to his question.

Kerr responded: “With all due respect, I did not get an answer from the candidates. American men and women in the military are professional enough to serve with gays and lesbians. ... Today, don’t ask, don’t tell is destructive to our military policy.”

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a decorated Vietnam veteran, got the last word on the subject.

He said, “almost unanimously, they [high-ranking military officials] tell me that this present policy is working, that we have the best military in history, we have the bravest, most professional, best-prepared, and that this policy ought to be continued because it’s working.”
 
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