US 2008 Presidential Campaign Thread - Part 2

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Yeah, 'cause that'll really solve the problem :|. It really worries me that there are people who think that way. I mean, I know people like to laugh at the idea of diplomacy 'cause it's, like, crazy or something, but you know, mankind bombing and killing each other for the past god knows how many centuries hasn't solved squat, so why not give diplomatic means a try?

Like I said before, can't we try and find a way to bring the sane people on both sides to the table to reach some sort of compromise and figure out a way to try and fight back against those on both sides who want the other gone from the earth? Why can't we do that? By favoring one group of people over the other instead of acknowledging the good and bad on both sides, we're really, REALLY not helping matters.

unico said:
Kucinich isn't harming anybody with his own UFO sightings. Bush seems to enjoy the idea of sending off our friends and families into harmful situations.

Exactly. Besides that, keep in mind he just said he saw a UFO. And that doesn't automatically equate to alien spaceships/life forms/what have you. It could very well have been something that normally flies around in the air but, for some reason, that night, looked odd from where he was.

But the Bush administration on the other hand, they frighten me. Big time. I'm watching a serious power trip in action when I see them, and it ain't pretty.

Angela
 
Shirley MacLaine that Kucinich had seen a UFO at her house, Kucinich said that he had. He quickly sought to clarify -- an "unidentified flying object"

I think it is possible that any of us might see an UFO.



But, I do not believe in Aliens from other planets, or space vehicles from other planets or ghosts or angels.


but,
unidentified flying object, what is odd about that?
 
george_w_bush_space_alien_shrunk.jpg

FE_DA_070905iran.jpg

Dennis%20Kucinich.jpg



fun pictures, huh?

Well, two of the above believe some invisible, imaginary guy in the sky is guiding them, for righteousness sake, to impose his will and their beliefs on other people

they are killing people based on these delusions

the other one saw an object in the sky he could not identify
he does believe he is "guided by voices" from invisible people in the sky to kill people


who is least dangerous?
 
deep said:


I think it is possible that any of us might see an UFO.



But, I do not believe in Aliens from other planets, or space vehicles from other planets or ghosts or angels.


but,
unidentified flying object, what is odd about that?

Smart, credible people see UFOs in NM, where Shirley MacLaine lives, all the time. :shrug:
 
I'm fully willing to accept there's other life forms out there in our universe. I don't think they'll be invading Earth anytime soon, but I don't see why other life forms merely existing in space is so implausible an idea.

Good point, too, deep, regarding people claiming to be guided by voices or higher beings or things of that nature. Really, how is that any different?

Angela
 
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diamond said:


But the leaders of Israel aren't leading rallies with the masses chanting:

"Death To Iran
Death To Iran
Death To Iran "

Let us know when they are and get back to us.

dbs

Is that what the U.S. chanted before dropping nukes on Japan?? Reread your history book and get back to me ;)
 
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Moonlit_Angel said:
I'm fully willing to accept there's other life forms out there in our universe.

Angela

Ok

other planets and star systems are made of the same materials as our system

so the possibility exists

we may very soon will find microbes and the like



but, unless we are able to conquer the dimension of time we will never see any thing close to intelligent life
 
oops,

I left out the word "NOT"




the other one saw an object in the sky he could not identify
he does NOT believe he is "guided by voices" from invisible people in the sky to kill people
 
diamond said:
Is Japan now our ally?

dbs

There is nothing impressive about using fear tactics to get people to come to your side. We showed Japan that we could blast them off the face of the earth. It's not too surprising that this eventually led to them becoming an ally. The real possibility of your entire country being ruthlessly murdered can tend to do that to you. We bombed 2 major cities and took the lives of thousands The dropping of nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki is terrorism, end of debate, according to this definition. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/terrorism

Also, how one can compare, Pearl Harbor, a military base that was bombed (albeit, horribly and without reason) to the dropping of nuclear weapons on cities full of innocent civilians is beyond me.
 
1945 Truman used atomic bombs on two Japanese cities, Hiroshima on August 6 and Nagasaki on August 9. Now generally considered a war crime, at the minimum it was the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. There was no lack of military targets or a demonstration in a remote place was possible, so the selection of targets is indefensible, leaving aside the issue of whether the bombing was justified in the first place. To make this decision Truman had to wave aside concerns about postblast radiation, which was an unknown quantity at that time, and even the possibility of an unstoppable chain reaction in the atmosphere which would destroy the world. It was pointed out to him that one bomb dropped on a city would have an effect undistinguishable from and no greater than a big B-29 incendiary raid of the kind already in progress, in terms of immediate casualties and total damage. In other words, this was utterly senseless. And why the second bomb? Whatever point Truman thought he was making was made with the first one. Dropping the bomb to "end the war sooner" was a falsification of history because Truman, in fact, lengthened the war in order to drop the bomb. First he postponed the Potsdam Conference and thereby the Russian declaration of war on Japan for two weeks until the bomb was ready and then he had the language for assurances to the Emperor deleted so the Potsdam Declaration would be unacceptable to the Japanese. The US Strategic Bombing Survey explicitly stated that the war would have ended sooner if they had chosen different targets -- but the goal was not to end the war but to support an invasion . As to the argument that the bomb saved American lives - it is spurious to assert as fact that obliterating Hiroshima in August was needed to obviate an invasion in November - the date we had planned
 
Well said, U2isthebest, I couldn't agree more.

deep said:
Ok

other planets and star systems are made of the same materials as our system

so the possibility exists

we may very soon will find microbes and the like



but, unless we are able to conquer the dimension of time we will never see any thing close to intelligent life

Oh, yeah, I agree that it's extremely unlikely we'll ever see any of this other intelligent life. I just think it does exist out there, is all :). What it is, whether it's other humans or plant forms or stuff like what you mentioned, whatever, that's merely speculation and probably always will be.

Angela
 
diamond said:
Is Japan now our ally?

Yes, they are.

What's that got to do with justifying the atomic bomb?

It's been covered already, but that's a ridiculous attempt to defend it.
 
I remember, back in high school, reading accounts from people who (miraculously) lived through the Japan bombings. Truly heartwrenching stuff. There was no excuse for these innocent people to suffer the way they did. Absolutely none. I'm sorry, I will never agree to the idea that it's justifiable to punish innocent people because of the actions of a FEW idiots. Never.

Angela
 
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Clearly we are misinterpreting the Bible here. Only "true Christians" can effectively quote the Bible. C'mon, guys. :rolleyes: :wink:
 
unico said:


Is that what the U.S. chanted before dropping nukes on Japan?? Reread your history book and get back to me ;)

You might want to reread yours and not liberal rewrites.
Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

Japan wasn't on the verge of surrendering before the bombs were dropped.
Matter of fact, high ranking Japamese officials voted 3-3 after both bombs were dropped to continue the war-they were still undecided.

It wasn't until the emperor cast the deciding vote to surrender, making it 4-3.
Then Japan surrendered-this only after their country was devastated, and Russia was also threatening to enter the mix next.


"Following the bombing of Hiroshima on August 6, 1945 (right), the Japanese government met to consider what to do next. The emperor had been urging since June that Japan find some way to end the war, but the Japanese Minister of War and the heads of both the Army and the Navy held to their position that Japan should wait and see if arbitration via the Soviet Union might still produce something less than a surrender. Military leaders also hoped that if they could hold out until the ground invasion of Japan began, they would be able to inflict so many casualties on the Allies that Japan still might win some sort of negotiated settlement. Next came the virtually simultaneous arrival of news of the Soviet declaration of war on Japan of August 8, 1945, and the atomic bombing of Nagasaki of the following day. Another Imperial Council was held the night of August 9-10, and this time the vote on surrender was a tie, 3-to-3. For the first time in a generation, the emperor (right) stepped forward from his normally ceremonial-only role and personally broke the tie, ordering Japan to surrender. On August 10, 1945, Japan offered to surrender to the Allies, the only condition being that the emperor be allowed to remain the nominal head of state. "

dbs
 
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diamond said:


You might want to reread yours and not liberal rewrites.
Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_of_Japan

Japan wasn't on the verge of surrendering before the bombs were dropped.
Matter of fact, high ranking Japamese officials voted 3-3 after both bombs were dropped to continue the war-they were still undecided.

It wasn't until the emperor cast the deciding vote to surrender, making it 4-3.
Then Japan surrendered-this only after their country was devastated, and Russia was also threatening to enter the mix next.


"Following the bombing of Hiroshima on August 6, 1945 (right), the Japanese government met to consider what to do next. The emperor had been urging since June that Japan find some way to end the war, but the Japanese Minister of War and the heads of both the Army and the Navy held to their position that Japan should wait and see if arbitration via the Soviet Union might still produce something less than a surrender. Military leaders also hoped that if they could hold out until the ground invasion of Japan began, they would be able to inflict so many casualties on the Allies that Japan still might win some sort of negotiated settlement. Next came the virtually simultaneous arrival of news of the Soviet declaration of war on Japan of August 8, 1945, and the atomic bombing of Nagasaki of the following day. Another Imperial Council was held the night of August 9-10, and this time the vote on surrender was a tie, 3-to-3. For the first time in a generation, the emperor (right) stepped forward from his normally ceremonial-only role and personally broke the tie, ordering Japan to surrender. On August 10, 1945, Japan offered to surrender to the Allies, the only condition being that the emperor be allowed to remain the nominal head of state. "

dbs

What does your response have to do with you quoting me asking if the U.S. chanted "Death to Japan" prior to dropping the bombs?

My point is, people don't need to advertise their intentions for there to be a threat. As with the example of nuking Japan, it is quite clear that anyone who holds nuclear weapons in their custody has the capabilities to use them.

And stop trying to make assumptions about my education sources. You know nothing about me. Knock it off.
 
1-
We never chanted "Death to Japan", so why you brought it up is beyond me, however Iran is now chanting "Death To Israel" and Japan attacked us first-that's why they got nuked.
2-
Israel is under constant threat, and now Iran has gone more public with it-by chanting "Death To Israel"
3-
And this exactly the reason why the free world doesn't want Iran to acquire nukes, their intentions are not too well hidden.

dbs
 
diamond said:
1-
We never chanted "Death to Japan", so why you brought it up is beyond me, however Iran is now chanting "Death To Israel" and Japan attacked us first-that's why they got nuked.

dbs

Japan attacked a military base located in a place that was not even part of the United States at the time. Once again, that is 100% NOT cause for the use of nuclear weapons on 2 cities full of innocent civilians!
 
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