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Old 10-09-2007, 08:39 PM   #261
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Originally posted by diamond


No.
That is a misread on your part.

I only pointed out most liberals would have a conniption if a conservative were campaigning in a church-(espousing what their beliefs and understanding of Christianity were)-and if you're honest you'll admit it's true.

dbs
BS. As has been pointed out repeatedly, most liberals don't have a problem with someone being religious or even speaking at a church, it's when they try and turn their religious beliefs into law that liberals see a big problem.

But go on ignoring that.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:46 PM   #262
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Originally posted by Diemen
BS. As has been pointed out repeatedly, most liberals don't have a problem with someone being religious or even speaking at a church, it's when they try and turn their religious beliefs into law that liberals see a big problem.
Bingo.

(And for that matter, while atheists obviously wouldn't share their beliefs in a church, I'd raise some hell (uh...no pun intended) if an atheist tried to push their beliefs on others, too)

Angela
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:25 PM   #263
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Originally posted by diamond

That you guys took no offense of it wreaks of hypocrisy.

i didn't like it either.

but i'm less concerned by it because, based upon his words and deeds, it appears as if Obama has arrived at faith through an intellectual process, as opposed to an in-muh-guts-i'm-an-alcoholic-and-a-total-failure-in-comparison-to-my-Poppy conversion (thinking W, here).

it also wasn't particularly Jesus-y. this is why most people are fine with vague notions of "god" or a "creator" but start to draw the line when we get all specific and, thus, exclusionary.
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:11 PM   #264
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Sorry to disapoint you guys but a lot of the US laws are based on the 10 Commandments.

dbs
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:17 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Sorry to disapoint you guys but a lot of the US laws are based on the 10 Commandments.

dbs
Do some research...



Tell me how many of these are made law. And of those, which ones don't make common sense?





Oh, the uninformed...
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:23 PM   #266
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Thou shall not steal?
Thou shall not bear false witness?
Thou shall not kill/murder (the innocent)?

umm hello?
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:31 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Sorry to disapoint you guys but a lot of the US laws are based on the 10 Commandments.

dbs
Correction: Some laws in the U.S. are SIMILAR to those in the 10 commandments. But then those laws are found in just about every government on the planet.

Unless like you'd like to suggest that red China allows its citizens to slay each other in the streets, given their godless background.

And really when you think about it, there's really only three commandments that are reflected in our laws of the land. No stealing. No killing. No false witness. The rest have not been codified into any kind of law as far as I know (at least not in this country).
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:36 PM   #268
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Correction: Some laws in the U.S. are SIMILAR to those in the 10 commandments. But then those laws are found in just about every government on the planet.

Then that fact tells me there is a God of us all.
And Audeltry used to be against US law, still frowned upon by most US citizens -unless you're a guest talk show host on The View

dbs
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:40 PM   #269
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And Mitt comes up large in Michigan debate:

ding
ding
ding

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Old 10-09-2007, 11:42 PM   #270
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Originally posted by diamond

Thou shall not kill/murder (the innocent)?
Haha.
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:13 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
Thou shall not steal?
Thou shall not bear false witness?
Thou shall not kill/murder (the innocent)?

umm hello?
That's pretty weak, but I'm sure you realized that after you typed it.

30%, if that much, and like Sean said, most countries have those...

Do some research!!!
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:23 AM   #272
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Originally posted by diamond
And Mitt comes up large in Michigan debate:

ding
ding
ding

You didn't even watch it, did you?

Why do you even try talking politics?
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Old 10-10-2007, 12:25 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond


Then that fact tells me there is a God of us all.
And Audeltry used to be against US law, still frowned upon by most US citizens -unless you're a guest talk show host on The View

dbs
And blasphemy? Is that to be against the law as well - should erase the first amendment for that

How about coveting your neighbours posessions? Goodbye aspiration in a capitalist society

Honouring father and mother? Im sure that one should be enforced, in fact abused children should be at fault in those cases since child abuse never made the top 10 laws of Jesusland.

No idolatry? Time to ship those bloody Buddhists out of the country, for starters.

Keep the Sabbath holy? Again, shut down the whole country for that time, it would be mad!

Thou shalt not murder? One size fits all rule given to us from God - of course the concept of upholding the individual rights that we get by consensually engaging with society and state without a God based cause to be could arguably be as effective - or not, it seems a lot simpler if God says so.

All the coveting ones are bloody hard to enforce, short of mind reading - but aspirational freethinkers are totally not what built America anyway and getting rid of them should do wonders, the idolatry one sort of slices through the establishment clause and the rest are by no means unequivocally bad every single time (judging cases upon their merits can be better done in an imperfect secular system of laws than one that claims to be perfect).

Arguing that the law is derived or justified in some manner from God and favouring the extension of it to match that belief goes dead against the model of Government that America was able to institute and preserve for centuries (with obvious exceptions - but it was still ahead of the game on a number of points). While pulling quotes from the 18th Century that use the parlance of God or explicitely refer to the Christian God and ethic may seem critical they are trumped by both the explicit wording of the documents as well as the presence of naturalistic minded men among the drafters (not believing in an interventionist God in a world before Darwin is more significant than the opposite).

Secularism preserves your right to worship and to live your life according to your religious beliefs, at the same time it alows others to do the same (or not); it protects the liberties of all, and the vigilance of groups like the ACLU is what keeps it alive.
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Old 10-10-2007, 01:17 AM   #274
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I think the logic is that you can go against God's Commandments if you do it in God's name.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:43 AM   #275
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*Nods* Just look at the wars going on right now for proof of that one.

Angela
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Old 10-10-2007, 03:20 AM   #276
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Re last nights debate, Time has Mitt coimng in 2nd:

http://www.time.com/time/specials/20...669823,00.html
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:19 AM   #277
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Quote:
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Sorry to disapoint you guys but a lot of the US laws are based on the 10 Commandments.

dbs


You're missing the entire point.
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Old 10-10-2007, 05:23 AM   #278
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And Mitt comes up large in Michigan debate:

ding
ding
ding

Wow, in that clip they discussed his "funny" response to a question about religion and the separation of church and state that actually reeks of hypocrisy.
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Old 10-10-2007, 06:18 AM   #279
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And Mitt comes up large in Michigan debate:

ding
ding
ding



it seems like someone's committing adultery amongst his candidates.

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Old 10-10-2007, 08:24 AM   #280
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Washington, the old cliché goes, is Hollywood for ugly people—a mecca for ambitious strivers who lack the cheekbones or the glamour to make it to the silver screen. But that was before wall-to-wall media coverage turned presidential campaigns into lengthy spectacles as relentlessly contrived and overproduced as the Golden Globes. Managed by fleets of pricey handlers and professional writers, candidates have become as manufactured as move stars: coached on every aspect of their dress and demeanor, and supplied with perky sound-bites for spontaneous delivery on Letterman.

http://www.radaronline.com/from-the-..._obama_mit.php

Which is why, as we set out to plan the cover of Radar's Politics issue, it seemed appropriate to do a little facile packaging of our own. What better way to underline the ego, excess, and artifice that dominate modern politics than to borrow a page from Vanity Fair's now-notorious 2006 Hollywood issue, which starred Tom Ford, Keira Knightley, and Scarlett Johansson in various states of undress? True, on our cover, Hillary may lack Knightley's porcelain visage, and Barack makes for a jarringly beefy ScoJo, but they, and the other contenders for the 2008 election, do have a few attributes to recommend them. Washington may well be Hollywood for ugly people, but, as John McCain once gamely noted, "Hollywood is Washington for the simpleminded."

This is an excerpt from the November issue of Radar Magazine.
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