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Old 09-23-2008, 02:09 PM   #141
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At least he talks to the media and takes something other than fluffball questions
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:33 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Another Biden gaffe! And it's a two-fer!
Golly! That's HUUUUUUGE!!!! God forbid something bad happens in the world and Joe Biden accidentally says "tv" instead of "radio!"

Man, at least John McCain only messes up with things that don't matter!



Let's create a list! I'll start!

“Somalia” for “Sudan”: As recounted in a reporter’s pool report from McCain’s Straight Talk Express bus on June 30, the senator said while discussing Darfur, a region of Sudan: "How can we bring pressure on the government of Somalia?"

Senior adviser Mark Salter corrected him: “Sudan.”

“Germany” for “Russia”: A YouTube clip from last year memorializes McCain referring to Vladimir Putin of Russia — following a trip to Germany — as “President Putin of Germany.”

• This spring, McCain said troops in Iraq were “down to pre-surge levels” when in fact there were 20,000 more troops than when the surge policy began.

• Also this spring, McCain twice appeared to mistake Sunnis and Shiites, two branches of Islam that split violently.

• In Phoenix earlier this summer, McCain referred to Czechoslovakia, which has been divided since Jan. 1, 1993, into the Czech Republic and Slovakia. He also referred to Czechoslovakia during a debate in November and a radio show in April.

• Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said “Iraq” on Monday (late July) when he apparently meant “Afghanistan”, adding to a string of mixed-up word choices that is giving ammunition to the opposition.


Gosh, those are just from one site! (McCain gaffes pile up; critics pile on - Mike Allen and Jim VandeHei - Politico.com)

If only we could find more! How about here: Master List of McCain Flip-Flops and Gaffes


• "Sen. John McCain said that if he were president, he would fire SEC Chairman Chris Cox for his “betrayal of trust” leading up to this week’s financial market crisis."

Problem is, the Securities and Exchange Commission, which regulates the trading of stocks & bonds, is an independent agency outside the jurisdiction of the White House. While the President "nominates", and the Senate approves, the SEC chairman, the President does not have the power to fire him/her.

• During his interview on ABC's "This Week", McCain referred to the "Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General David Petraeus":
"I believe that, when he [Obama] said that we had to leave Iraq, and we had to be out by last March, and we had to have a date certain, that was in contravention to — and still is — the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General David Petraeus."


During the Republican Primary Debate hosted by Fox News on October 21, 2007, Senator McCain took a not-so-subtle swipe at the experience of two of his chief opponents: Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney:
"I have had a strong and a long relationship on national security, I've been involved in every national crisis that this nation has faced since Beirut, I understand the issues, I understand and appreciate the enormity of the challenge we face from radical Islamic extremism.

I am prepared. I am prepared. I need no on-the-job training.

I wasn't a mayor for a short period of time. I wasn't a governor for a short period of time.
For 20-some years, including leading the largest squadron in the United States Navy, I led. I didn't manage for profit, I led for patriotism."

So if Senator McCain is to be taken at his word, being "a mayor or governor for a short period of time" is inadequate training to be President of the United States. Enter Sarah Palin.

• Following Iran’s missile tests, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) slammed Sen. Barack Obama’s (D-IL) position on the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, declaring, “This is the same organization that I voted to condemn as a terrorist organization when an amendment was on the floor of the United States Senate. Senator Obama refused to vote.” CNN’s Political Ticker notes a flaw with McCain’s attack:
The problem with the critique? McCain also missed that vote on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment on September 26, 2007. Records show that Obama was in New Hampshire and McCain was in New York instead of being in the Senate chamber for the vote in question.

Indeed, McCain — the most absent Senator — has missed more than 60 percent of the votes in the 110th Congress.


•[B]Just for fun:[/B]"Knowingly" or "unknowingly", no one can say for sure, but during a campaign appearance in Sturgis, S.D., Senator McCain proffered his wife as a potential contestant in their "Miss Buffalo Chip" beauty contest, in which many contestants... at their own discretion... often choose to compete in "topless", and in some cases, even "bottomless".




I'm sure we can find a ton from all candidates.

But seriously, let's refrain from jumping at useless gaffes and instead focus on the ones that actually mean something.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:40 PM   #143
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btw, Master List of McCain Flip-Flops and Gaffes is quite the interesting site
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:46 PM   #144
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But seriously, let's refrain from jumping at useless gaffes and instead focus on the ones that actually mean something.


but if we do that, a black man may win.

please, think of the children. the non-gay ones.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:47 PM   #145
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:50 PM   #146
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:59 PM   #147
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Guess who's going to see Matt Lauer and Al Roker do the Today Show in Williamsburg tomorrow


Hooray for swing state status!
Very cool!
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:37 PM   #148
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But seriously, let's refrain from jumping at useless gaffes and instead focus on the ones that actually mean something.

Naturally, liberals think the only gaffes that mean something are the ones their opponents make.
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:41 PM   #149
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Naturally, liberals think the only gaffes that mean something are the ones their opponents make.
Exactly.

Utoo, are you saying that if Sarah Palin or John McCain had said "In 1929, FDR went on the tv" that you and others in here wouldn't be all over it?
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:53 PM   #150
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conservative George Will has a moment of honesty:

Quote:
McCain Loses His Head

By George F. Will
Tuesday, September 23, 2008; A21

"The queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said without even looking around."

-- "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"

Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.

Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated. This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."

To read the Journal's details about the depths of McCain's shallowness on the subject of Cox's chairmanship, see "McCain's Scapegoat" (Sept. 19). Then consider McCain's characteristic accusation that Cox "has betrayed the public's trust."

Perhaps an old antagonism is involved in McCain's fact-free slander. His most conspicuous economic adviser is Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who previously headed the Congressional Budget Office. There he was an impediment to conservatives, including then-Rep. Cox, who, as chairman of the Republican Policy Committee, persistently tried and generally failed to enlist CBO support for "dynamic scoring" that would estimate the economic growth effects of proposed tax cuts.

In any case, McCain's smear -- that Cox "betrayed the public's trust" -- is a harbinger of a McCain presidency. For McCain, politics is always operatic, pitting people who agree with him against those who are "corrupt" or "betray the public's trust," two categories that seem to be exhaustive -- there are no other people. McCain's Manichaean worldview drove him to his signature legislative achievement, the McCain-Feingold law's restrictions on campaigning. Today, his campaign is creatively finding interstices in laws intended to restrict campaign giving and spending. (For details, see The Post of Sept. 17; and the New York Times of Sept. 19.)

By a Gresham's Law of political discourse, McCain's Queen of Hearts intervention in the opaque financial crisis overshadowed a solid conservative complaint from the Republican Study Committee, chaired by Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. In a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the RSC decried the improvised torrent of bailouts as a "dangerous and unmistakable precedent for the federal government both to be looked to and indeed relied upon to save private sector companies from the consequences of their poor economic decisions." This letter, listing just $650 billion of the perhaps more than $1 trillion in new federal exposures to risk, was sent while McCain's campaign, characteristically substituting vehemence for coherence, was airing an ad warning that Obama favors "massive government, billions in spending increases."

The political left always aims to expand the permeation of economic life by politics. Today, the efficient means to that end is government control of capital. So, is not McCain's party now conducting the most leftist administration in American history? The New Deal never acted so precipitously on such a scale. Treasury Secretary Paulson, asked about conservative complaints that his rescue program amounts to socialism, said, essentially: This is not socialism, this is necessary. That non sequitur might be politically necessary, but remember that government control of capital is government control of capitalism. Does McCain have qualms about this, or only quarrels?

On "60 Minutes" Sunday evening, McCain, saying "this may sound a little unusual," said that he would like to replace Cox with Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic attorney general of New York who is the son of former governor Mario Cuomo. McCain explained that Cuomo has "respect" and "prestige" and could "lend some bipartisanship." Conservatives have been warned.

Conservatives who insist that electing McCain is crucial usually start, and increasingly end, by saying he would make excellent judicial selections. But the more one sees of his impulsive, intensely personal reactions to people and events, the less confidence one has that he would select judges by calm reflection and clear principles, having neither patience nor aptitude for either.

It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?
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Old 09-23-2008, 03:55 PM   #151
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Biden has been making some big gaffes lately, not sure if it's fatigue or what...

But come on, let's admit there's a difference between the gaffe's that can be made by nervously saying blue instead of green and the gaffe's that actually change the context of meaning. The difference between one poorly stated sentiment to a record of very questionable sentiments.

There is a difference and we should really talk about those that matter, otherwise we'll have several pages of tit for tat...
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:17 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
Exactly.

Utoo, are you saying that if Sarah Palin or John McCain had said "In 1929, FDR went on the tv" that you and others in here wouldn't be all over it?
That's quite a leap from not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is. I'm not saying that it wasn't an idiotic statement, but I'm willing to guess that he just got his facts and figures wrong, and perhaps he needs a refresher course in early 20th century history.

Early 21st century history needs no refresher course. Specifically when you are in the running for the #2 spot, and your interviewer is asking you a question about the policy of the head of your country (and party) currently in office.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:47 PM   #153
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Exactly.

Utoo, are you saying that if Sarah Palin or John McCain had said "In 1929, FDR went on the tv" that you and others in here wouldn't be all over it?
Yes.

Rather, we may point it out as you did, but we wouldn't suggest that it really matters at all (not that you did that). Nor would I claim that it had any potential as a headline if it were Palin who said it.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:52 PM   #154
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Look, nobody cares about what Biden has said because nobody is covering him. He's not even on TV, as if he doesn't exist.

The GOP would be better off worrying monumentally about pretty much every new poll than worrying about Joe Biden's differentiation of electrical appliances.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:56 PM   #155
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That's quite a leap
I just got to call Bullshit here


I read the paper everyday, and the Bush Doctrine was not a widely used term.


If he had asked about "preemptive war" that would be different.

and as for Biden.

almost everyone knows the stock market crashed in 1929 on Hoover's watch,
and the depression was in full swing when FDR took office in 1933

there were hordes of homeless camped out in city parks and on public land

A Hooverville was the popular name for a shanty town built by homeless men in the depression years.

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Old 09-23-2008, 04:58 PM   #156
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A Bushville!

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Old 09-23-2008, 05:02 PM   #157
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I am not a religious man.

But if I believed in prayer

this is the outcome I would be praying for.


Quote:
269 tie: An electoral college 'doomsday'?
Joseph Curl (Contact)

President Obama, with Vice President Palin? President Biden? President Pelosi? Call them the "Doomsday" scenarios -- On Nov. 5, the presidential election winds up in a electoral-college tie, 269-269, the Democrat-controlled House picks Sen. Barack Obama as president, but the Senate, with former Democrat Joe Lieberman voting with Republicans, deadlocks at 50-50, so Vice President Dick Cheney steps in to break the tie to make Republican Sarah Palin his successor.

"Wow," said longtime presidential historian Stephen Hess. "Wow, that would be amazing, wouldn't it?"

"If this scenario ever happened, it would be like a scene from the movie 'Scream' for Democrats," said Democratic strategist Mary Anne Marsh. "The only thing worse for the Democrats than losing the White House, again, when it had the best chance to win in a generation, but to do so at the hands of Cheney and Lieberman. That would be cruel."

Sound impossible? It's not. There are at least a half-dozen plausible ways the election can end in a tie, and at least one very plausible possibility - giving each candidate the states in which they now lead in the polls, only New Hampshire - which went Republican in 2000 and Democratic in 2004, each time by just 1.5 percent - needs to swap to the Republican column to wind up with a 269-269 tie.

There are currently 10 tossup states, according to RealClearPol-itics.com, which keeps a running average of all state polls. If Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain wins Ohio, Virginia, New Hampshire and Indiana - not at all far-fetched - and Mr. Obama takes reliably Democratic states Pennsylvania and Michigan, and flips Colorado (in which he holds a slight poll lead), with the two splitting New Mexico and Nevada, the electoral vote would be tied at 269.

Absurd? Possibly, and there is not complete agreement among constitutional experts on whether a newly elected Congress or the currently sitting House and Senate would make the decision.

So try this scenario: The newly elected House, seated in January, is unable to muster a majority to choose a president after a 269-269 tie, but the Senate, which is expected to be controlled by Democrats, picks Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. from the Democratic ticket. If the House is still deadlocked at noon on Inauguration Day, Jan. 20, Mr. Biden becomes acting president.

Or try this one on for size: Neither the House nor the Senate fulfills its constitutional duty to select the president and the vice president by Jan. 20, so House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, California Democrat, becomes acting president until the whole mess is sorted out.

"That would cause all kinds of lawsuits: We would have 50 Floridas, and we might not know who the president is for two years," said Judith Best, a political science and Electoral College specialist at the State University of New York in Cortland.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:04 PM   #158
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I just got to call Bullshit here


I read the paper everyday, and the Bush Doctrine was not a widely used term.



it was at the very heart of the debate surrounding the Iraq War in 2002/3.

unless you're arguing that it's unimportant that our VP apparently has so little interest in foreign policy that she doesn't even read the newspapers.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:06 PM   #159
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President Obama, with Vice President Palin?
I hope to never see this woman after November 5th.

She's DIM. In the words of Bill Maher, she's a Category 5 Moron. And go ahead call me an elitist, better that than revelling in being an idiot.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:08 PM   #160
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it was at the very heart of the debate surrounding the Iraq War in 2002/3.

unless you're arguing that it's unimportant that our VP apparently has so little interest in foreign policy that she doesn't even read the newspapers.
Well she's just following Bush's strategy of never picking up a newspaper.
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