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Old 09-21-2008, 11:18 AM   #81
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What was Barack Obama's response to 10 town hall meetings over the summer with John McCain?


Not the same. The top the ticket gets multiple appearances with each other. The VPs get one---and they're cutting that one off at the knees.

As for the town hall crap, the guy turned down 10 town halls, in which you get to say the same things over and over 10 times, for 3 debates--saying the same things over and over only three times. Moreover, can you imagine how much crap would have to go into planning 10 town halls? Which cities/towns do you have them in---yours, ours, ones that are 2/3 yours, etc.? Who gets tickets--yours, ours, third-party distribution with who knows what kind of bias? Who gets to ask questions? How do you ensure that an event like that, with two distinct parties on stage and in the crowd, doesn't turn into a shouting match between sides? It's a lot easier for one guy to fill a hall with his own supporters and answer some of their questions. And times have changed since it was done decades ago---whatever simplicity and civility were there then are much more difficult to find now.

Most important of all----Why should Obama do this just because McCain wants him to? Why submit yourself to an arena that your opponent has practiced in for years? It's like Obama asking McCain to have a speech-off. Have an applause-o-meter and see which speech the people like best.
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:32 AM   #82
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that was all it was meant to be.

i do think, however, that if Obama had a pregnant teenage daughter with a thuggish boyfriend, it would be quite a different conversation.
Who has this?
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:34 AM   #83
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Obama agreed to the 3 debates, which has been the standard for quite some time. In fact, I do think that Clinton debated Dole maybe only twice.

10 town halls is completely UNPRECEDENTED and McCain wanted to do it because he knew he'd get free publicity which he needs given the fact that everybody thinks he's a boring 200-year-old turd blossom and nobody wants to actually listen to him live, nevermind that he can't compete with respect to fundraising.

Obama does not need to bend over when McCain demands something that's never been done before, that benefits only him and then on top of it say "thank you, can I have some more?"
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:41 PM   #84
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a forward i got today:
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:37 PM   #85
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Who has this?
It's a question of how family situations are caricatured in the public realm and what kinds of staying power certain caricatures have relative to others.
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:08 PM   #86
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I am sorry,
but what you just wrote doesn't really address the issue of any thug-like behavior.

Does this young man have an arrest record?
Has he been charged with some beatings or even accused?

Perhaps some vandalism? School property destruction?

Perhaps some break-ins or robberies?

Some kind of juvenile record surely exist,
for everyone to be giving the thumbs up on this.

I am just wondering why people I consider rational thinkers are agreeing with this characterization.

Have I missed something?
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:15 PM   #87
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White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin' redneck," like Bristol Palin's boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll "kick their fuckin' ass," and talk about how you like to "shoot shit" for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.
Now where does the author call him a thug?
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:25 PM   #88
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Where did I say anyone called him a thug ?




the author did imply that viewing him as a thug should be considered.

and several posters seemed to agree

( I really don't want to go back to what individual posters have written,
we all know -that just leads to a pissing contest )
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:26 PM   #89
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No, the author implied that if he were black than caricaturing him as a thug would "be considered."
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:30 PM   #90
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No, the author implied that if he were black than caricaturing him as a thug would "be considered."
based on what ?
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:33 PM   #91
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based on what ?
His review of the long history of black presidential and vice-presidential candidates and how their pregnant teenagers' boyfriends were portrayed in the media? Is that the evidential standard you're looking for?
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:37 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
No, the author implied that if he were black than caricaturing him as a thug would "be considered."
Exactly.

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based on what ?
Ah, deep, you're 50 years old and live in the US. We know you aren't so naive or unaware that you would believe what yolland wrote (quoted above) isn't accurate.
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Old 09-21-2008, 02:57 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by yolland View Post
His review of the long history of black presidential and vice-presidential candidates and how their pregnant teenagers' boyfriends were portrayed in the media? Is that the evidential standard you're looking for?

I think the stats are something like 30-40 percent of all girls in the U S get pregnant before the age of 20.

Two high-school kids get pregnant and the families stand behind them,
they plan on getting married and the kids come from stable homes with support.

Why should anyone be implying they should be considered thugs
for something as trivial as a myspace posting?
If they were black with the same circumstances would anyone be labeling them?

I don't recall anyone exploiting the fact the Obama's mama was an unwed teenager like Bristol, when she conceived Obama.


and I don't think anyone gave Britney's little sister a pass because she was white.


Call me crazy, but I think Bristol's kid will have a typical up-bringing like many of us posting on this board.

I can't say the same for the Spears' kids,
I am hoping things do work out for them. Afterall, those Spears' babies are white.
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:26 PM   #94
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Obama himself did cite that in Palin's defense and in protest of all the media coverage. But Obama's mother wasn't black, and in any case voters who tend to respond to the 'if-you-can't-manage-your-family-then-how-can-you-manage-the-country' schtick are more concerned with the 'sins' of the candidate's kids than with those of his or her parents.
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Two high-school kids get pregnant and the families stand behind them,
they plan on getting married the kids come from sable homes with support.

I don't think anyone would be implying they should be considered thugs for something as trivial as a myspace posting.
Even if they were black.
And I disagree pretty strongly with you. Would the entire electorate buy into such suggestions--no, of course not. But take a look at the results of the poll MrsS posted yesterday: significant numbers of white people, who happen to comprise the majority of voters in this country, are more primed to perceive various moral weaknesses in black people than they are in white people, and this is one of them. Thus those kinds of insinuations have more staying power when aimed at black people--more ability to plant a seed of doubt and keep it alive in (swing) voters' minds.
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and I don't think anyone gave Britney's little sister a pass because she was white.
Are Britney's parents on the presidential ticket?

When the 'Sarah Palin's high-school kid PREGNANT!!!!' story first broke, there were some blogs, and even more so reader comments, floating around out there sporting a noticeably ugly undertone of "Buncha white trash rednecks. Figures!" And doubtless there are still some muttering that to themselves. But white people are a majority in this country, so anyone trying to wield that stereotype isn't going to get very far when their target is 'respectable' people like those on a presidential ticket. Britney Spears and her family are in an altogether different category--hell yeah, let's titillate ourselves by first building her up into an impossible All-American Girl icon (why can't I be like that!), then enjoy tearing her apart when the inevitable downfall occurs (I knew all along she was just another redneck tramp!).
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Call me crazy, but I think Bristol's kid will have a typical up-bringing like many of us posting on this board.
Quite possibly, and I never suggested otherwise, but that's beside the point.

And assuming they're 'doing all the right things' by getting married and raising the kid themselves is just as unwarranted (yet politically convenient) as assuming 'this is where a lack of comprehensive sex ed gets you.' Unless you personally know the teenagers in question, you're not in a position to know whether this is likely the best thing for them and their baby or not.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:24 PM   #95
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Not the same. The top the ticket gets multiple appearances with each other. The VPs get one---and they're cutting that one off at the knees.
Since Barack Obama is the "Change Candidate", I thought he wouldn't mind mixing things up a bit.



Quote:
As for the town hall crap, the guy turned down 10 town halls, in which you get to say the same things over and over 10 times, for 3 debates--saying the same things over and over only three times. Moreover, can you imagine how much crap would have to go into planning 10 town halls?
The whole point of a town hall meeting is for it to be random, no script at all, talk about anything. McCain does not mind doing that, but Obama has a problem with it for some reason.


Quote:
Which cities/towns do you have them in---yours, ours, ones that are 2/3 yours, etc.? Who gets tickets--yours, ours, third-party distribution with who knows what kind of bias? Who gets to ask questions?
Keep it random. Sometimes it might be a McCain crowd, sometimes it might be an Obama crowd, sometimes it might be a mix.

Quote:
How do you ensure that an event like that, with two distinct parties on stage and in the crowd, doesn't turn into a shouting match between sides?
The whole point of the town hall meeting is to take questions from anyone and discuss anything that is on anyones mind. Its the opposite of the traditional campaign where both sides attempt to control all the factors.

Quote:
Most important of all----Why should Obama do this just because McCain wants him to? Why submit yourself to an arena that your opponent has practiced in for years? It's like Obama asking McCain to have a speech-off. Have an applause-o-meter and see which speech the people like best.
It was just an idea to do something different. I'm surprised to see the "change candidate" stick to tradition on this one.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:30 PM   #96
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Obama agreed to the 3 debates, which has been the standard for quite some time. In fact, I do think that Clinton debated Dole maybe only twice.
But isn't Obama the "CHANGE" candidate? I thought he would jump at the idea.



Quote:
10 town halls is completely UNPRECEDENTED and McCain wanted to do it because he knew he'd get free publicity which he needs given the fact that everybody thinks he's a boring 200-year-old turd blossom and nobody wants to actually listen to him live, nevermind that he can't compete with respect to fundraising.
If everyone thinks that McCain is a "boring 200 year old turd blossom and nobody wants to actually listen to him live", then 10 town halls should benefit Obama.


Quote:
Obama does not need to bend over when McCain demands something that's never been done before, that benefits only him and then on top of it say "thank you, can I have some more?"
I thought the candidate of "Change" would be interested in doing something that has never been done before.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:56 PM   #97
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The whole point of the town hall meeting is to take questions from anyone and discuss anything that is on anyones mind. Its the opposite of the traditional campaign where both sides attempt to control all the factors.

McCain's arrogant dismissal of Ron Paul's points during the Republican candidates' debate prove that he has no real interest in listening to alternative points of view - even from within his own party.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:00 PM   #98
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I thought the candidate of "Change" would be interested in doing something that has never been done before.
Don't worry, that will come in about 6 weeks.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:15 PM   #99
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McCain's arrogant dismissal of Ron Paul's points during the Republican candidates' debate prove that he has no real interest in listening to alternative points of view - even from within his own party.

Once Ron Paul realizes that the year is 2008 and not 1808, I'm sure McCain will be more willing to listen.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:21 PM   #100
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Don't worry, that will come in about 6 weeks.
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