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Old 09-28-2008, 12:00 PM   #621
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Are you saying that if people try to attack the U.S. and don't succeed it's such a small story that you think attempts aren't happening? Even attempts in Canada are being foiled and we aren't even in Iraq.
We're in Afganistan arn't we? Please don't make a connection between Iraq and 9/11. We've been threatened since we joined the war on terror. I'm not saying we should'nt be in Afganistan, but the potential terror attacks in Canada are not related to Iraq.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:01 PM   #622
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As I said, it's impossible to take you seriously anymore, purpleoscar. So go ahead and continue with your rantings against those damn commie liberals, and how all of the media is anti-conservative, and about your wish for more extreme torture of suspects who you aren't even sure have knowledge of a crime or even committed a crime. It makes you look great.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:01 PM   #623
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I couldn't wait I had to jump on this BS:

Business Ethics is laid out like this. Basically the teacher would talk about a subject, usually the environment, and then he would show ONE point of view on some news reports he copied from TV and Michael Moore episodes and a San Francisco textbook.

Next you would have to write a paper with YOUR point of view on a the subject. The next class you would get a mark out of 4. If you aligned with the point of view closest to Michael Moore and the instructor you would get 4/4. If you didn't you would get a 2/4. The rest of the class he would talk about the same subject and what would have given you full marks.

Now going back to the beginning of the course the instructor mentioned that he wasn't a socialist, because there have been many complaints of this instructor, and that he believes in markets but we must have a balanced view.

The point of the course in the end was to get the students to believe that corporations should ignore the interests of shareholders. Nevermind that without shareholder investment there is no company. Next the corporation, now ignoring shareholders, has to create social programs like daycare paid by the corp. and the shareholders will have to eat less dividends. Michael Moore in one episode said "F the shareholders!" Michael Moore is a rich shareholder so I guess he's saying "F myself!" Nevermind that not all corporations can afford this, and if forced to they would have to pass the cost of social programs onto the consumer for their products.

The last point he had to make was to get us to study HIS economic plan. He basically took an intro economics course and was disgusted by the 1st class that he quit the course. He then made a cute chart of households and firms and added the sun, made a "holistic" chart that includes the environment.

So now areas of the government are included into corporations so basically the cost will ultimately bankrupt these companies and then government will have to take it over.

One article he made us read basically asserted that "if companies don't adopt socially motivated goals and look mainly to the shareholders then the government will have to take over." It's an offer you can't refuse.

Why would anyone invest in a company that doesn't look at a return on investment as their #1 goal? The government has it's place and he basically wants all the regulation and court system to be ignored, because it's too slow for him, and the companies should do all that.

The class was a mandatory class for all accountants. I couldn't, (like my instructor), quit my class out of disgust. I had to take it. So I wrote anti corporation style and got around 3/4's from then on. Of course those who copied from the start got 4/4 and A+ at the end of the course which would obviously solidify their liking the instructor and him continuing on. Anyways most students don't turn conservative until they have to work, pay bills, and pay taxes. Not all hope is lost.

I talked to another student who was about to take that business ethics course and I told him how to pass it with honors. I told him to be super critical of business and just mirror his opinion based on the instructor. He would show up after class with a serious look on his face. "The course is just regurgitation!" I told him to keep it up because the mark is more important. Do not disagree with him. He ended up with an A+.

I talked to one girl from my business ethics class who aced it. I kept thinking to myself. Maybe A+ should be a failure. No work was necessary to get it, just conformism. I also noticed her body language. There's this thing about university courses like this that basically target a cause and then set the student up as "hero" and then the student gets an exagerrated ego and self-importance that instructors hope will translate into future "social corporation" attitudes. Once they try to pay their bills and as accountants they try and pay the bills of the company hopefully they will see it's not really the place of companies to act like government.

Hopefully with this extra detail you can sympathize with my point of view. Sure the instructor can't torture me, because he doesn't have the power to do so, but he did single me out and others just like Communists do. Some people were ethically stronger than me and continued to argue with the professor but they only got 50% by the end of the course. It wouldn't be in the interest of the school to fail people because lawyers would get involved and the school would have to answer for those tactics by institutions they don't control.

This idea of targeting students is not uncommon. The Marxist form has been done since the 1960's. I'm just a newer generation that had to go through it.

At least I got my degree and don't have to go back there again.
So you think that this little anecdote demonstrates that conservatives are consistently discriminated against in the classroom?

I'm liberal. I have a very similar story about an ethics prof I could tell. I guess I was discriminated against, too?

No. It's meaningless.


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Who donates to the CBC?
I was wondering the same thing. I've never heard of it before. A quick google and scan of the CBC websites, both television and corporate, showed nothing regarding their solicitation or acceptance of donations.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:06 PM   #624
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I was wondering the same thing. I've never heard of it before. A quick google and scan of the CBC websites, both television and corporate, showed nothing regarding their solicitation or acceptance of donations.
Ya, I had a bit of a chuckle. I thought we donated enough tax dollars. What idiot would then decide to donate more money?
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:09 PM   #625
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Ya, I had a bit of a chuckle. I thought we donated enough tax dollars. What idiot would then decide to donate more money?
Maybe that's where the "donation" part of it comes in.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:13 PM   #626
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Maybe that's where the "donation" part of it comes in.
Ya, well i enjoy the cbc. I've been watching Cornation Street for 15 years now and would'nt give it up. And George Strombo and Rick Mercer are very good.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:16 PM   #627
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Ya, well i enjoy the cbc. I've been watching Cornation Street for 15 years now and would'nt give it up. And George Strombo and Rick Mercer are very good.
I do too. I think it's a really important part of our culture.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:23 PM   #628
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I do too. I think it's a really important part of our culture.
We are a vast country spread very thinly in part and the cbc is one thing that is constant. People don't relize the importance of such an institution in a country so spread out and, in some cases, issolated. Sure living in a big city you'll have all the options of connecting to many different medians of news and entertainment but for many people the CBC has been the one constant provider of said programs for their entire lives. You can't compare it to an American Network.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:24 PM   #629
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Well if people are fighting in a war and are picked up they may not have actually shot Americans because they didn't get a chance to but many did and some killed Americans. Torturing is only for information. If the torture is not violent enough you won't get them to give up anything so it's pointless to do waterboarding. It only works on some people. Hard nosed terrorists would need torture so violent that no western democracy would support so it's pointless to have. Locking them up at least prevents them from going back out onto the battlefield.

Now you don't like anything conservative and you based that on episodes of the Simpsons? I thought you did more analysis than that. BTW the Simpsons is not a good source. Sarcasm and cynicism is what they are about. Some of it is funny. I even laughed at the episode where the republicans are in a dark castle making a deal with Nader to lose the election for Al Gore.

Are you saying that if people try to attack the U.S. and don't succeed it's such a small story that you think attempts aren't happening? Even attempts in Canada are being foiled and we aren't even in Iraq.

This is exactly what conservatives feared. The threat has to be much bigger and more immediate before people think there is a danger worth defending against.
Wow, now this is getting frustrating. Somehow, you've managed to almost completely miss everything I was trying to say.

You honestly think I made my decision over The Simpsons? You entirely missed the point of me posting that quote. I cannot fathom how you misunderstood that. The point was that your logic was faulty.

And, again, the point went absolutely sailing over your head: I'm not saying people who make attempts shouldn't be treated as such. I'm saying you have to prove it first, in a court of law with a fair trial. We're talking about suspects here, not people that are guaranteed guilty. This goes back to my point about conservatives believing in some strange infallibility with the CIA and FBI and American justice system.

What I'm saying, and read this carefully, is that not every person that is arrested by the United States on the grounds of terrorism or association with terrorist groups actually committed a terrorist attack, attempted to commit one, or are even associated with a terrorist group at all. A lot of these cases are based on speculation with no solid evidence as to whether there's even a link.

If these points go over your head again, I think I'm done.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:40 PM   #630
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What I'm saying, and read this carefully, is that not every person that is arrested by the United States on the grounds of terrorism or association with terrorist groups actually committed a terrorist attack, attempted to commit one, or are even associated with a terrorist group at all. A lot of these cases are based on speculation with no solid evidence as to whether there's even a link.

See Mahar Arar... purple should be familar with this case!

and phillyfan, your simpsons quote was spot on. I had a good laugh!
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:16 PM   #631
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I cannot claim credit, I believe Irvine has used it before when people have used similar leaps of logic.
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Old 09-28-2008, 06:38 PM   #632
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what drives cable, and what especially drives Fox News, is the sense of hysteria around any little blip on the news scene. ratings are driven not by being right or left but by giving the viewer a reason to watch, and hysteria is the best way to do that.
But this, to me, is where Fox and CNN are truly different. I don’t care that Fox is so conservative. It’s blatant and open and obvious – and that makes it fine. I wouldn’t care if CNN moved as far left as Fox is right, either (and come on, they’re not even close to being the same thing at opposite ends). The difference to me, and what really bugs me about Fox, is that hysteria. It’s dumbed down significantly, then the hysteria always turned right up.

I was flicking between the two after the debate finished. On CNN you had a very measured and intelligent panel moderated by Anderson Cooper. On Fox, you had Sean Hannity screaming and shouting at, mostly, himself. Sure, no doubt every one of the people on the CNN panel will vote for Obama and lean their given opinions towards Obama, and sure, Sean Hannity, with a McCain-Palin sign as his backdrop (!!), will spend the hour interviewing McCain supporters about how great McCain was. If you can’t see that and adjust for that, you’re an idiot. I don’t mind that though. The difference is in the style and substance. One was a calm conversation that systematically went through every point and difference in the debate, the other was a screaming tabloid column brought to life. I would have far more respect for Fox if they ever tried to present an intelligent conservative point of view. They never, ever do.
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Old 09-28-2008, 06:39 PM   #633
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im wondering how the poll numbers would have looked now if john had picked mitt.


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Old 09-28-2008, 06:42 PM   #634
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obama not honoring the wishes of slain soldier's family:

Family Told Obama NOT To Wear Soldier Son&#039;s Bracelet... Where is Media? | NewsBusters.org

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Old 09-28-2008, 07:01 PM   #635
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If that's the case, then that's a shame. I wish neither candidate felt the need to go down that route. Regardless of whether or not their feelings about the soldier and the family are genuine, it always feels like a cheap stunt to me.

As an aside only of interest to me, the soldier in question here is from a town in Wisconsin not very far from my own hometown.
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Old 09-28-2008, 07:55 PM   #636
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obama not honoring the wishes of slain soldier's family:

Family Told Obama NOT To Wear Soldier Son's Bracelet... Where is Media? | NewsBusters.org

<>
If this was Palin, or for that matter McCain, is anybody in here going to tell me it wouldn't be FRONT PAGE NEWS and talked about over and over until Thursday's debate. Hence the difference in the media's treatment of the candidates. In the context of this election's "controversies" this one is pretty big - we'll see if it gets any play by anyone other than FOX.
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Old 09-28-2008, 08:04 PM   #637
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In the context of this election's "controversies" this one is pretty big -
How is it BIG?
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Old 09-28-2008, 08:08 PM   #638
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Soldier's mother 'ecstatic' about Obama's bracelet

By DINESH RAMDE, Assocated Press, Sept. 28


MILWAUKEE — The mother of a Wisconsin soldier who died in Iraq says she was "ecstatic" when Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama mentioned during Friday's debate the bracelet she gave him in honor of her son. Tracy Jopek of Merrill told The Associated Press on Sunday she was honored that Obama remembered Sgt. Ryan David Jopek, who was killed in 2006 by a roadside bomb.

Jopek criticized Internet reports suggesting Obama, D-Ill., exploited her son for political purposes. "I don't understand how people can take that and turn it into some garbage on the Internet," she said.

Jopek acknowledged e-mailing the Obama campaign in February asking that the presidential candidate not mention her son in speeches or debates. But she said Obama's mention on Friday was appropriate because he was responding after Sen. John McCain, the Republican nominee, said a soldier's mother gave him a bracelet.

"I've got a bracelet, too, from Sergeant—from the mother of Sergeant Ryan David Jopek, given to me in Green Bay," Obama said during the debate. "She asked me, 'Can you please make sure another mother is not going through what I'm going through?' No U.S. soldier ever dies in vain because they're carrying out the missions of their commander in chief. And we honor all the service that they've provided."

Jopek says Obama's comment rightfully suggested there's more than one viewpoint on the war. She wouldn't directly say whether she wanted Obama to refrain from mentioning the bracelet again, but said she hopes the issue will just go away. "I think these bracelets should be looked upon as an honor that both candidates wear them to respect the troops," Jopek said. "My request to both of them is that they honor the troops by lifting the conversation to the issues, and that they continue to live up to the standards our military deserves."
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Old 09-28-2008, 08:08 PM   #639
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News Headlines - Soldier's mother 'ecstatic' about Obama's bracelet : Townhall.com

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Old 09-28-2008, 08:11 PM   #640
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How is it BIG?
It's certainly bigger than Palin's pregnant daughter or the "Bush Doctrine" stumble. The guy's parents specifically asked that Obama not wear it and yet he continued to do so. If I were a republican strategist I would jump over this thing wearing lead boots. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a political ad is being produced as I type. If we don't hear about this on CNN, ABC, NBC, PBS or CBS we'll know certain folks on FYM are right about a media bias.
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