US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment - Page 6

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deep

the idea that Obama gets the U S out of Iraq - is a pipe dream

despite what has avid followers believe

we're getting out of Iraq. it's unaffordable. everyone knows this.

it's how soon we get out of Iraq that's the question here. we won't get out as fast as most Americans would like.

deep · 03-14-2008, 05:58 PM

but seriously, a lot
if not most of Obama supporters

especially the younger ones

believe Obama will accomplish this fairly quickly

I don't believe he will do it any quicker

and because of the learning curve -
he will most certainly take longer, with more deaths, and billions gone from our broken economy.

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 06:27 PM

going back to the Reverend ... i find him much less offensive than Falwell or Robertson or Hagee or Franklin Graham.

i also think there are some oratory differences between black churches and white evangelical churches.

Obama needs to clarify, but we also need to consider the fact that some people think he's a Muslim. this isn't all bad news for him.

deep · 03-14-2008, 06:33 PM

the primary election process is rife with "race"

and any discussion of "race"

is one of the those "buckets of glue"

that once you pick it up

the only thing for sure is

it gets on you

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deep
the primary election process is rife with "race"

and any discussion of "race"

is one of the those "buckets of glue"

that once you pick it up

the only thing for sure is

it gets on you

what can you do when you have a candidate who only has melanin to offer, right?

MrsSpringsteen · 03-14-2008, 06:42 PM

Obama Disagrees With Pastor's 'God Damn America' Sermon
Obama on His Pastor: 'I Profoundly Disagree With Some of These Statements'
By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI

March 14, 2008—

Sen. Barack Obama says he "obviously disagrees" with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing "God Damn America" instead of "God Bless America."

Reacting to an ABC News story about the sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Obama told the Pittsburg Tribune-Review, "I haven't seen the line. This is a pastor who is on the brink of retirement who in the past has made some controversial statements. I profoundly disagree with some of these statements."

But he defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career.

"There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe," he told the paper.

Rev. Wright remains part of the Obama campaign, as a member of the candidate's religious advisory board.

I can't find the article on the Pittsburgh paper's web site, but this is on HuffPo

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

verte · 03-14-2008, 07:17 PM

So his minister said goddamn. If that's the worst thing he ever does in his life, that's not too bad.

INDY500 · 03-14-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by verte
So his minister said goddamn. If that's the worst thing he ever does in his life, that's not too bad.

It's not god damn, it's God damn America...from behind a pulpit with a cheering congregation.

Quote:

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

Senator O'bama is scheduled to appear on MSNBC's Countdown at 8 pm and Anderson Cooper at 10.
Avoiding Fox News of coarse.

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by INDY500

It's not god damn, it's God damn America...from behind a pulpit with a cheering congregation.

he's just been removed from being a "spiritual adviser" to the campaign.

why a presidential campaign needs a fucking spiritual adviser is another question, but hopefully this will make the white people lining out outside of the Cheesecake Factory feel a little bit more comfortable.

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by INDY500

Senator O'bama

he's irish now? or was that in respect to the upcoming holiday?

U2isthebest · 03-14-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511

he's irish now? or was that in respect to the upcoming holiday?

Clearly, he's a black, Irish Muslim.

anitram · 03-14-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by INDY500

It's not god damn, it's God damn America...from behind a pulpit with a cheering congregation.

Maybe while people were dumping French wine down the drain and insulting the Germans, they would have been better off considering why good chunks of the American people themselves are echoing things which are on the face far more inflammatory.

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 08:14 PM

so, watching "Countdown," Obama is pointing out that this guy has a 30 year record, he wasn't there when these statements were made, and he says he "strongly disagrees" with his comments, but he says that he won't "repudiate the man."

there's no there there.

INDY500 · 03-14-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511

he's irish now? or was that in respect to the upcoming holiday?

Oops. That's posting at 8 pm as Bill O'Reilly's music is playing and you need to switch to MSNBC to see what senator Obama has to say.

Couldn't help but notice how glum Keith Olbermann was about having to cover this subject.
Clearly he wanted to get on to the Bush bashing.

A_Wanderer · 03-14-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511

he's just been removed from being a "spiritual adviser" to the campaign.

why a presidential campaign needs a fucking spiritual adviser is another question, but hopefully this will make the white people lining out outside of the Cheesecake Factory feel a little bit more comfortable.

Electability depends on being inclusive to the majority.

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Electability depends on being inclusive to the majority.

evidently.

i still find it creepy.

Irvine511 · 03-14-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by INDY500

Senator O'bama is scheduled to appear on MSNBC's Countdown at 8 pm and Anderson Cooper at 10.
Avoiding Fox News of coarse.

he's going to be on Hannity and Combes very soon.

INDY500 · 03-14-2008, 09:36 PM

Wow!
It's encouraging to see that his campaign realizes what a big deal this has the potential of becoming.

BVS · 03-14-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by INDY500

Avoiding Fox News of coarse.

Yeah, he should give the "news" station that thought his middle name, him in a bathing suit, the fact that he was Muslim, and might be a cigarette smoker, etc... 'NEWS' the time of day.

Just another conspiracy right?

financeguy · 03-14-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by deep
and because of the learning curve -
he will most certainly take longer, with more deaths, and billions gone from our broken economy.

Hold on a sec here.

Post your evidence for such an outlandish claim!

03-14-2008, 05:58 PM	#102
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,602 Local Time: 05:48 AM	but seriously, a lot if not most of Obama supporters especially the younger ones believe Obama will accomplish this fairly quickly I don't believe he will do it any quicker and because of the learning curve - he will most certainly take longer, with more deaths, and billions gone from our broken economy. __________________

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03-14-2008, 06:27 PM	#103
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 34,039 Local Time: 08:48 AM	going back to the Reverend ... i find him much less offensive than Falwell or Robertson or Hagee or Franklin Graham. i also think there are some oratory differences between black churches and white evangelical churches. Obama needs to clarify, but we also need to consider the fact that some people think he's a Muslim. this isn't all bad news for him.

03-14-2008, 06:33 PM	#104
deep Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A far distance down. Posts: 28,602 Local Time: 05:48 AM	the primary election process is rife with "race" and any discussion of "race" is one of the those "buckets of glue" that once you pick it up the only thing for sure is it gets on you

03-14-2008, 06:42 PM	#106
MrsSpringsteen Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 28,459 Local Time: 07:48 AM	Obama Disagrees With Pastor's 'God Damn America' Sermon Obama on His Pastor: 'I Profoundly Disagree With Some of These Statements' By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI March 14, 2008— Sen. Barack Obama says he "obviously disagrees" with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing "God Damn America" instead of "God Bless America." Reacting to an ABC News story about the sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Obama told the Pittsburg Tribune-Review, "I haven't seen the line. This is a pastor who is on the brink of retirement who in the past has made some controversial statements. I profoundly disagree with some of these statements." But he defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career. "There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe," he told the paper. Rev. Wright remains part of the Obama campaign, as a member of the candidate's religious advisory board. I can't find the article on the Pittsburgh paper's web site, but this is on HuffPo The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents. Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue. Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context. As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS. Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn. The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church. Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country. With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

03-14-2008, 07:17 PM	#107
verte The Fly Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: in temporary exile Posts: 61 Local Time: 12:48 PM	So his minister said goddamn. If that's the worst thing he ever does in his life, that's not too bad.

03-14-2008, 08:14 PM	#113
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 34,039 Local Time: 08:48 AM	so, watching "Countdown," Obama is pointing out that this guy has a 30 year record, he wasn't there when these statements were made, and he says he "strongly disagrees" with his comments, but he says that he won't "repudiate the man." there's no there there.

03-14-2008, 09:36 PM	#118
INDY500 Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: The American Resistance Posts: 4,754 Local Time: 06:48 AM	Wow! It's encouraging to see that his campaign realizes what a big deal this has the potential of becoming.