US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment

[verte76]

Originally posted by anitram

Yeah, I saw it last night.

[INDY500]

WASHINGTON (AFP) — Barack Obama set his sights on November's general election Saturday as he campaigned in Oregon...

Pitching his message to Oregon's environmentally-conscious voters, Obama called on the United States to "lead by example" on global warming, and develop new technologies at home which could be exported to developing countries.

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.

"That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added.

Ok, jokes about Americans clinging to their forks and thermostats aside.

Then what is going to happen?

Will a president Obama 'lead by example' and yank the central heating & cooling out of the White House, ground Air Force One, mothball the motorcade limosines and instist on sack lunches for Capitol Hill? Is America's future one of sacrifice and deprivation?

Or does president Obama use his leadership to further increase our standard of living and the rest of the world, while still decreasing CO2 emissions, by encouraging the expansion of nuclear power around the globe?

Will it be pain or gain under the leadership of Barack Obama?

[BVS]

It's too bad you don't ask yourself these questions about McCain...

[MaxFisher]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
It's too bad you don't ask yourself these questions about McCain...

these are valid questions for Obama. But I won't be holding my breath. Platitudes are far easier than specifics.

[BVS]

Originally posted by MaxFisher


these are valid questions for Obama.

They are valid questions for any leader, but when you are offering status quo(or the same ole shit) what's the point?

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by INDY500


Ok, jokes about Americans clinging to their forks and thermostats aside.

Then what is going to happen?

Will a president Obama 'lead by example' and yank the central heating & cooling out of the White House, ground Air Force One, mothball the motorcade limosines and instist on sack lunches for Capitol Hill? Is America's future one of sacrifice and deprivation?

Or does president Obama use his leadership to further increase our standard of living and the rest of the world, while still decreasing CO2 emissions, by encouraging the expansion of nuclear power around the globe?

Will it be pain or gain under the leadership of Barack Obama?

yes, the world is either one thing, or the other.

[BVS]

Originally posted by Irvine511




yes, the world is either one thing, or the other.

Well it is with INDY...

[Vincent Vega]

It's all binary.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


They are valid questions for any leader, but when you are offering status quo(or the same ole shit) what's the point?

Switching from fossil fuels to nuclear is hardly maintaining the status quo. Nobody is arguing the status quo, whether which direction to head. Up or down -- into the future or retreat to the past.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by Irvine511


yes, the world is either one thing, or the other.

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ..."

Why?

[deep]

Originally posted by Vincent Vega
It's all binary.

this is what the Obama campaign was founded on.


either / or

Obama = change

or

Hillary = Clintons are the same as Bush (just ask Harry)

[BVS]

Originally posted by INDY500


Switching from fossil fuels to nuclear is hardly maintaining the status quo. Nobody is arguing the status quo, whether which direction to head. Up or down -- into the future or retreat to the past.

There are plenty arguing status quo. I was just curious as to why you thought Obama was the only one worth questioning...

[BVS]

Originally posted by INDY500


"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ..."

Why?

See? You are arguing status quo.

[LemonMelon]

Originally posted by INDY500


"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ..."

Why?

Because other countries won't stand for it. Or something.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


See? You are arguing status quo.

I'm asking "why?" Because we can't... or because we shouldn't.

[BVS]

Originally posted by INDY500


I'm asking "why?" Because we can't... or because we shouldn't.

Isn't it obvious?

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by INDY500


"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ..."

Why?

because it destroys the earth. our current way of life is unsustainable, and will become ever more so when the Chinese and the Indians begin to wath to dive their SUVs and eat as much as they want and keep their homes at 72 degrees at all times.

i love it when people will wax on and on about, say, sexual responsibility in their politicians, but think nothing about the morality of their consumer choices or the personal responsibility for living a life that doesn't harm other people.

[INDY500]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Isn't it obvious?

No, because here is the full quote.

So that's what we want to do on global warming here in the United States. We are also going to have to negotiate with other countries. China, India, in particular Brazil. They are growing so fast that they are consuming more and more energy and pretty soon, if their carbon footprint even approaches ours, we're goners. That's part of the reason why we've got to make the investment. We got to lead by example. If we lead by example, if we lead by example, then we can actually export and license technologies that have been invented here to help them deal with their growth pains. But keep in mind, you're right, we can't tell them don't grow. We can't drive our SUVs and, you know, eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know, 72 degrees at all times, whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the tundra and then just expect every other country is going to say OK, you know, you guys go ahead keep on using 25 percent of the world's energy, even though you only account for 3 percent of the population, and we'll be fine. Don't worry about us. That's not leadership.

I'm hearing guilt for past sins here, not "hope."

[BVS]

Originally posted by INDY500

I'm hearing guilt for past sins here, not "hope."

You're hearing what you want to hear.

What past sins were in that quote?

It was pretty obvious to me that that quote was about 'shouldn't' not 'couldn't'...

[A_Wanderer]

Greenies do have a religiousity about them, things like paper recycling are usually faith based initiatives.