US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment

[Bluer White]

How long has Senator Obama been associated with this Reverand's church?

I think Obama can recover from this, but it might be too late to denounce the guy. It's a good thing for the Obama campaign that Pennsylvania isn't voting in the next few days.

 

[BVS]

BVS, respectably, maybe that's why we disagree so much. Most Americans think this is all garbage and harmful. Admittedly, I highlighted the most inflammatory lines, but only the far-left -- not Democrats or liberals mind you-- but the far-left, find any of this acceptable.

I agree the approach is harmful.

Let me break it down for you:

Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. America is still the No. 1 killer in the world.

Racism is alive and well. Racism did play a large part in how this nation was developed. And as far as civilized countries that pride themselves on being a moral country, we are the No. 1 killer. All sad but all true. No matter how you paint it.

We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God.

As a big fan of status quo yourself, you can see how social conservatism doesn't really work if you are minority.

We do not care if poor black and brown children cannot read and kill each other senselessly. We abandoned the cities back in the '60s when the riots started and it really doesn't matter what those nations do to each other; we gave up on them and public education of poor people who live in the projects . . .”

Not much I can argue with. If you've ever done any real research about life in poverty, you'll see it's a vicious cycle. Not many are doing anything to end this cycle.

We started the AIDS virus, and now that it is out of control, we still put more money in the military than in medicine; more money in hate than in humanitarian concerns. Everybody does not have access to healthcare, I don't care what the rich white boys in the Senate say. Listen up: If you are poor, black and elderly, forget it.”

Everyone doesn't have access to healthcare. And how much do we spend on weapons of destruction compared to truly necessary medicine?

We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty.

Well this is actually a worldwide phenomenon, "humanity" has a history of making sure someone is going to be below them.

We are selfish, self-centered egotists who are arrogant and ignorant and betray our church and do not try to make the kingdom that Jesus talked about a reality. And — and — and in light of these 10 facts, God has got to be sick of this shit.”

Amen.

 

[2861U2]

How long has Senator Obama been associated with this Reverand's church?

For 20 years Obama has called this racist a friend and mentor. 20 years. He should have walked out of the church as soon as Wright started "preaching," but he didn't. Bad judgment, Mr. Obama.

 

[phanan]

With the exception of the "we started the AIDS virus", I don't disagree with a lot of what he's saying. I disagree with his approach, just like I disagree with any "us vs them" type of mentality. Twist a few words around and it could easily sound very Repbublican like. All sides have extremists, let's distance ourselves from them.

Agreed. The approach sucked and looks bad.

 

[BVS]

For 20 years Obama has called this racist a friend and mentor. 20 years. He should have walked out of the church as soon as Wright started "preaching," but he didn't. Bad judgment, Mr. Obama.

I probably would have walked out if I heard this sermon. But I'd also walk out of your church, and many of the other poster's churches as well given some of the beliefs in here.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Wall Street Journal

OPINION

Obama and the Minister
By RONALD KESSLER
March 14, 2008; Page A19

In a sermon delivered at Howard University, Barack Obama's longtime minister, friend and adviser blamed America for starting the AIDS virus, training professional killers, importing drugs and creating a racist society that would never elect a black candidate president.

The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., pastor of Mr. Obama's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, gave the sermon at the school's Andrew Rankin Memorial Chapel in Washington on Jan. 15, 2006.

We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he began. "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."

Mr. Wright thundered on: "America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. . . . We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns, and the training of professional killers . . . We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children while trying to get public opinion turned against Castro and Ghadhafi . . . We put [Nelson] Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."

His voice rising, Mr. Wright said, "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. . . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . ."

Concluding, Mr. Wright said: "We started the AIDS virus . . . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . ."

Considering this view of America, it's not surprising that in December Mr. Wright's church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan for lifetime achievement. In the church magazine, Trumpet, Mr. Wright spoke glowingly of the Nation of Islam leader. "His depth on analysis [sic] when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening," Mr. Wright said of Mr. Farrakhan. "He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest."

After Newsmax broke the story of the award to Farrakhan on Jan. 14, Mr. Obama issued a statement. However, Mr. Obama ignored the main point: that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Mr. Farrakhan, and that Mr. Wright's church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader.

Instead, Mr. Obama said, "I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree." Trumpet is owned and produced by Mr. Wright's church out of the church's offices, and Mr. Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor.

Meeting with Jewish leaders in Cleveland on Feb. 24, Mr. Obama described Mr. Wright as being like "an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with." He rarely mentions the points of disagreement.

Mr. Obama went on to explain Mr. Wright's anti-Zionist statements as being rooted in his anger over the Jewish state's support for South Africa under its previous policy of apartheid. As with his previous claim that his church gave the award to Mr. Farrakhan because of his work with ex-offenders, Mr. Obama appears to have made that up.

Neither the presentation of the award nor the Trumpet article about the award mentions ex-offenders, and Mr. Wright's statements denouncing Israel have not been qualified in any way. Mr. Obama nonetheless told the Jewish leaders that the award to Mr. Farrakhan "showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community." That is an understatement.

As for Mr. Wright's repeated comments blaming America for the 9/11 attacks because of what Mr. Wright calls its racist and violent policies, Mr. Obama has said it sounds as if the minister was trying to be "provocative."

Hearing Mr. Wright's venomous and paranoid denunciations of this country, the vast majority of Americans would walk out. Instead, Mr. Obama and his wife Michelle have presumably sat through numerous similar sermons by Mr. Wright.

Indeed, Mr. Obama has described Mr. Wright as his "sounding board" during the two decades he has known him. Mr. Obama has said he found religion through the minister in the 1980s. He joined the church in 1991 and walked down the aisle in a formal commitment of faith.

The title of Mr. Obama's bestseller "The Audacity of Hope" comes from one of Wright's sermons. Mr. Wright is one of the first people Mr. Obama thanked after his election to the Senate in 2004. Mr. Obama consulted Mr. Wright before deciding to run for president. He prayed privately with Mr. Wright before announcing his candidacy last year.

Mr. Obama obviously would not choose to belong to Mr. Wright's church and seek his advice unless he agreed with at least some of his views. In light of Mr. Wright's perspective, Michelle Obama's comment that she feels proud of America for the first time in her adult life makes perfect sense.

Much as most of us would appreciate the symbolism of a black man ascending to the presidency, what we have in Barack Obama is a politician whose closeness to Mr. Wright underscores his radical record.

The media have largely ignored Mr. Obama's close association with Mr. Wright. This raises legitimate questions about Mr. Obama's fundamental beliefs about his country. Those questions deserve a clearer answer than Mr. Obama has provided so far.

Mr. Kessler, a former Wall Street Journal and Washington Post reporter, is chief Washington correspondent of Newsmax.com and the author of "The Terrorist Watch: Inside the Desperate Race to Stop the Next Attack

 

[Irvine511]

For 20 years Obama has called this racist a friend and mentor. 20 years. He should have walked out of the church as soon as Wright started "preaching," but he didn't. Bad judgment, Mr. Obama.

you're right. i think Obama needs to surround himself with people who only think the same things he does. and who compliment him whenever he says anything. and who tell him that any idea he has is a good one. and that, gosh darn it, we're americans. everything we do is good and right and just.

and then we can re-invade Iraq.

 

[deep]

you're right. i think Obama needs to surround himself with people who only think the same things he does.

do any of us know how or what he really thinks?

and then we can re-invade Iraq.

that is an Obama option

the idea that Obama gets the U S out of Iraq - is a pipe dream

despite what has avid followers believe

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't think he'll get us out of Iraq, I don't think anyone will for the foreseeable future. Best I can hope for is something far less than that 100 years. I think people are dreaming or delusional if they think Obama can do that. At least Bush will be home enjoying that brown brown grass of home.

 

[deep]

I don't think he'll get us out of Iraq, I don't think anyone will for the foreseeable future. Best I can hope for is something far less than that 100 years.

so an Obama 20 year plan is good for you?

and this from a guy

that is only where he is at because he kept saying

I was against the War in 2002


and Hillary was not.

 

[Irvine511]

the idea that Obama gets the U S out of Iraq - is a pipe dream

despite what has avid followers believe

we're getting out of Iraq. it's unaffordable. everyone knows this.

it's how soon we get out of Iraq that's the question here. we won't get out as fast as most Americans would like.

 

[deep]

but seriously, a lot
if not most of Obama supporters

especially the younger ones

believe Obama will accomplish this fairly quickly



I don't believe he will do it any quicker

and because of the learning curve -
he will most certainly take longer, with more deaths, and billions gone from our broken economy.

 

[Irvine511]

going back to the Reverend ... i find him much less offensive than Falwell or Robertson or Hagee or Franklin Graham.

i also think there are some oratory differences between black churches and white evangelical churches.

Obama needs to clarify, but we also need to consider the fact that some people think he's a Muslim. this isn't all bad news for him.

 

[deep]

the primary election process is rife with "race"

and any discussion of "race"

is one of the those "buckets of glue"

that once you pick it up

the only thing for sure is

it gets on you

 

[Irvine511]

the primary election process is rife with "race"

and any discussion of "race"

is one of the those "buckets of glue"

that once you pick it up

the only thing for sure is

it gets on you

what can you do when you have a candidate who only has melanin to offer, right?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Obama Disagrees With Pastor's 'God Damn America' Sermon
Obama on His Pastor: 'I Profoundly Disagree With Some of These Statements'
By BRIAN ROSS and REHAB EL-BURI

March 14, 2008—

Sen. Barack Obama says he "obviously disagrees" with his pastor of 20 years who said black Americans should sing "God Damn America" instead of "God Bless America."

Reacting to an ABC News story about the sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright of the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, Obama told the Pittsburg Tribune-Review, "I haven't seen the line. This is a pastor who is on the brink of retirement who in the past has made some controversial statements. I profoundly disagree with some of these statements."

But he defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career.

"There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe," he told the paper.

Rev. Wright remains part of the Obama campaign, as a member of the candidate's religious advisory board.



I can't find the article on the Pittsburgh paper's web site, but this is on HuffPo



The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

 

[verte]

So his minister said goddamn. If that's the worst thing he ever does in his life, that's not too bad.

 

[INDY500]

So his minister said goddamn. If that's the worst thing he ever does in his life, that's not too bad.

It's not god damn, it's God damn America...from behind a pulpit with a cheering congregation.

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

Senator O'bama is scheduled to appear on MSNBC's Countdown at 8 pm and Anderson Cooper at 10.
Avoiding Fox News of coarse.

 

[Irvine511]

It's not god damn, it's God damn America...from behind a pulpit with a cheering congregation.

he's just been removed from being a "spiritual adviser" to the campaign.

why a presidential campaign needs a fucking spiritual adviser is another question, but hopefully this will make the white people lining out outside of the Cheesecake Factory feel a little bit more comfortable.

 

[Irvine511]

Senator O'bama

he's irish now? or was that in respect to the upcoming holiday?

 

[U2isthebest]

he's irish now? or was that in respect to the upcoming holiday?

Clearly, he's a black, Irish Muslim.

 

[anitram]

It's not god damn, it's God damn America...from behind a pulpit with a cheering congregation.

Maybe while people were dumping French wine down the drain and insulting the Germans, they would have been better off considering why good chunks of the American people themselves are echoing things which are on the face far more inflammatory.

 

[Irvine511]

so, watching "Countdown," Obama is pointing out that this guy has a 30 year record, he wasn't there when these statements were made, and he says he "strongly disagrees" with his comments, but he says that he won't "repudiate the man."



there's no there there.

 

[INDY500]

he's irish now? or was that in respect to the upcoming holiday?

Oops. That's posting at 8 pm as Bill O'Reilly's music is playing and you need to switch to MSNBC to see what senator Obama has to say.

Couldn't help but notice how glum Keith Olbermann was about having to cover this subject.
Clearly he wanted to get on to the Bush bashing.

 

[A_Wanderer]

he's just been removed from being a "spiritual adviser" to the campaign.

why a presidential campaign needs a fucking spiritual adviser is another question, but hopefully this will make the white people lining out outside of the Cheesecake Factory feel a little bit more comfortable.

Electability depends on being inclusive to the majority.

 

[Irvine511]

Electability depends on being inclusive to the majority.

evidently.

i still find it creepy.

 

[Irvine511]

Senator O'bama is scheduled to appear on MSNBC's Countdown at 8 pm and Anderson Cooper at 10.
Avoiding Fox News of coarse.

he's going to be on Hannity and Combes very soon.

 

[INDY500]

Wow!
It's encouraging to see that his campaign realizes what a big deal this has the potential of becoming.

 

[BVS]

Avoiding Fox News of coarse.

Yeah, he should give the "news" station that thought his middle name, him in a bathing suit, the fact that he was Muslim, and might be a cigarette smoker, etc... 'NEWS' the time of day.

Just another conspiracy right?

 

[financeguy]

and because of the learning curve -
he will most certainly take longer, with more deaths, and billions gone from our broken economy.

Hold on a sec here.

Post your evidence for such an outlandish claim!