US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment

[U2DMfan]

Originally posted by Irvine511

you should check your percentages.

Sarcasm.
Playing the part of the "slightly racist blue collar" folk.
Remember us?
Gee, I wonder why I didn't get the benefit of the doubt?

for the record, 6 million/300 million 0.02%

Us Hillbillary Clinton folk have calculators too.

Anyways, my post was over the top for effect.
I tried to hint at that but I got my reaction anyways.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by U2DMfan



for the record, 6 million/300 million 0.02%

honey, you really want to re think this.

you realize that 300 million out of 300 million is ... 1, also understood as 100% of the original whole we were talking about.

thusly, 150 million out of 300 million is ... .5, otherwise known as 50% of the original whole we were talking about.

so, yes, we are talking about 2% (give or take) of the population.

[U2DMfan]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

What's to understand? You're wrong.

Just trying to get a reaction.

Irvine has constantly blasted blue collar white people, religous people etc. for being XYZ and just gets a free pass from the likes of you, doesn't he? I'm not crying about white people getting a raw deal, I'm talking about consistency in views.

Where is the concern about treating everyone fairly?

This is what I'm talking about.
I'm not pretending that everyone does get treatedly fairly.
I'm not pretending that we are ready for an open discussion.

Do people really want an honest discussion of race?
Are they ready to hear from the 'slightly racist' crowd that Irvine describes? Are they ready to hear from the minorities who don't like the constant parade of p.c. apologists?

No, I don't think so.

If the mods want to delete that post go ahead.
I could have been more clever had I not been tipsy but it's just more proof that unless you are on the bus around here, you're under it. Yeah, I know, 'woe is me'.

[U2DMfan]

Originally posted by Irvine511


honey, you really want to re think this.

you realize that 300 million out of 300 million is ... 1, also understood as 100% of the original whole we were talking about.

thusly, 150 million out of 300 million is ... .5, otherwise known as 50% of the original whole we were talking about.

so, yes, we are talking about 2% (give or take) of the population.

You lose me with your crazy martian math.



I'm a moron

[BVS]

Originally posted by U2DMfan

Irvine has constantly blasted blue collar white people, religous people etc. for being XYZ and just gets a free pass from the likes of you, doesn't he? I'm not crying about white people getting a raw deal, I'm talking about consistency in views.

Has constantly blasted? I've been in FYM a little longer than you and I haven't seen a constant blasting... Yes he will point out their flaws, but the reason he gets "a free pass" from me is I know Irvine well enough that he really doesn't put all religious people in the same box, or any other group...

Originally posted by U2DMfan

Do people really want an honest discussion of race?

Yes.

[deep]

Will these discussions be on University Campus' and from pulpits where children hear clergy make completes falsehoods.

North Dakota State University is investigating complaints about a campus skit in which a white student in blackface portrayed Barack Obama receiving a lap dance.

The same skit, part of a charity fundraiser held at a campus theater, also featured a depiction of cowboys having sex with each other, witnesses told The Forum newspaper, which first reported the backlash Friday.

"We're trying to find out the right approaches for accountability, but at the same time try to heal wounds that have occurred and allow the campus to move ahead," Janna Stoskopf, NDSU's dean of students, told The Associated Press on Friday.

The March 18 skit involving the NDSU Saddle and Sirloin Club was performed at the Mr. NDSU Pageant, which is sponsored by the Alpha Gamma Delta sorority and raises money for diabetes research.

People who attended it said a pageant contestant from Saddle and Sirloin dressed as a woman from the Internet video "I Got a Crush on Obama" and performed a strip tease for another student, who was wearing dark makeup and an afro wig.

In the background, two male students dressed as cowboys simulated anal sex while holding an Obama sign that one student ripped at the conclusion of the 30-second performance, the Forum reported.

"That seems to be consistent with what's been described to me," Stoskopf said.

The Obama campaign had no comment Friday.

[BVS]

Oh yes the university greek system... the bastion of equality.

[LemonMelon]

Obama won yesterday's Texas caucuses quite comfortably, and gained more delegates from the state overall.

Also, according to today's gallup poll, Obama is up 52% to Clinton's 42% among Dems: http://www.gallup.com/poll/105841/Ga...intons-42.aspx

[deep]

Originally posted by LemonMelon
Obama won yesterday's Texas caucuses quite comfortably, and gained more delegates from the state overall.

And this is a good thing?


This is the problem with the Democratic Party primary process.

[diamond]

Well I've been a way for more than 72 hours on a self imposed hiatus.

In coming back to get right I thought I would post 5 nice things about Hillary.

1- She's not a quitter.
2-She has a great chuckle.
3-She's quick on her feet-a thinking person.
4-Not really bad looking lady for all she's been through.
5-She has been battle tested and ready to be Commander In Chief, per her Bosnia visit in the mid 1990s; dodging bombs and sniper bullets- here's the proof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHVEDq6RVXc

dbs

[Diemen]

I have to admit, diamond...













that was funny.

[BonosSaint]

The candidate onslaught continues in northeast PA. Both Hillary and Obama will be here on Tuesday, speaking at separate colleges a few blocks apart. Hillary's 3rd visit, Obama's 2nd since mid-March. Traffic will be a bitch and my work is about midpoint between both colleges.

[diamond]

Originally posted by BonosSaint
The candidate onslaught continues in northeast PA. Both Hillary and Obama will be here on Tuesday, speaking at separate colleges a few blocks apart. Hillary's 3rd visit, Obama's 2nd since mid-March. Traffic will be a bitch and my work is about midpoint between both colleges.

somehow, someway, if we look hard enough- it's probably GW's fault..

[BonosSaint]

No, I blame him for the constant visits we got in 2004. The perks and inconveniences of being a swing state.

[diamond]

Originally posted by Diemen
I have to admit, diamond...













that was funny.

[MrsSpringsteen]

NY Magazine


Who’ll Stop the Pain?

By John Heilemann Published Mar 28, 2008



In the days after John Edwards’s withdrawal from the Democratic race, the political world expected his endorsement of Barack Obama would be forthcoming tout de suite. The neo-populist and the hopemonger had spent months tag-teaming Hillary Clinton, pillorying her as a creature of the status quo, not a champion of the kind of “big change” they both deem essential. So appalled was Edwards at Clinton’s gaudy corporatism—her defense of the role of lobbyists, her suckling at the teats of the pharmaceutical and defense industries—that he’d essentially called her corrupt. And then, not least, there were the sentiments of his wife. “Elizabeth hasn’t always been crazy about Mrs. Clinton” is how an Edwards insider puts it; a less delicate member of HRC’s circle says, “Elizabeth hates her guts.”

But now two months have passed since Edwards dropped out—tempus fugit!—and still no endorsement. Why? According to a Democratic strategist unaligned with any campaign but with knowledge of the situation gleaned from all three camps, the answer is simple: Obama blew it. Speaking to Edwards on the day he exited the race, Obama came across as glib and aloof. His response to Edwards’s imprecations that he make poverty a central part of his agenda was shallow, perfunctory, pat. Clinton, by contrast, engaged Edwards in a lengthy policy discussion. Her affect was solicitous and respectful. When Clinton met Edwards face-to-face in North Carolina ten days later, her approach continued to impress; she even made headway with Elizabeth. Whereas in his Edwards sit-down, Obama dug himself in deeper, getting into a fight with Elizabeth about health care, insisting that his plan is universal (a position she considers a crock), high-handedly criticizing Clinton’s plan (and by extension Edwards’s) for its insurance mandate.

The implications of this story are several and not insignificant. Most obviously, it suggests that the front-runner’s diplomatic skills could use some refinement. It also raises the issue, which has cropped up in a different form after New Hampshire, Super-Duper Tuesday, and the Ohio and Texas primaries, of Obama’s capacity to close the deal. But equally important is how it bears on the questions du jour among Democrats who see their once-uplifting primary campaign descending into self-destructive mayhem: How can we put this thing to bed? How can Clinton be stopped from putting the party through three more months of hell? Where are those vaunted “party elders” who can convince her that it’s sayonara time?

The urgency of these questions began to mount this week, as the level of nastiness reached new heights—or, rather, depths. For all its rhetoric about practicing a new, more virtuous brand of politics, the Obama campaign has been going after Clinton hammer and tongs. Rarely a day passes without his people dubbing her a liar and a fraud. (Although when it comes to Snipergate, it’s hard to blame them.) They have accused Bill Clinton of McCarthyism and invoked the infamous blue dress on which he left his, er, DNA—the latter coming on a blog post arguing that he actually makes McCarthy look benign. Indeed, it sometimes seems as if the Obamans are actively trying to cede the moral high ground.

The sight and sounds of Clinton’s lieutenants scrambling to claim that ground—which, after all, is about as foreign to many of them as the beaches of Bora Bora—has been amusing, as each denunciation of their rival’s negativity is juxtaposed immediately with some fresh depredation from their side. James Carville’s likening of Bill Richardson to Judas Iscariot. (With the beard, I guess, you can kinda see it, but wasn’t Judas a skinny dude?) The clear suggestion by WJC, which provoked the charges of McCarthyism, that Obama is less patriotic than Hillary. Her attempt to reignite the Parson Wright conflagration by asserting that “he would not have been my pastor.”

This would all be good sport, to be sure, were it not for the gathering impression that the two-way battering is taking a serious toll on the Democrats’ prospects in the fall. Poll after poll indicates that Obama’s and Clinton’s negatives are rising—and so are John McCain’s approval ratings, along with his lead among independents over either of them. Then there’s the data indicating that pronounced bitterness is setting in among both Obama and Clinton supporters toward other side: Roughly 20 percent in each category now say they would support McCain if their preferred candidate fails to win the nomination. Ugh.

Which brings us back to those party elders and the calls for them to step in. Now, let’s be clear, those calls are coming exclusively from Obama’s adherents. And they have some logic on their side: If it’s all but mathematically impossible for Clinton to wind up ahead in pledged delegates or the popular vote—and it is—then what conceivable purpose is being served by further bloodshed?

But the desire for a deus ex machina intervening to usher Clinton from the race runs into a number of problems, beginning with the fact that there simply aren’t many Democratic deities around—and the few that might plausibly qualify seem inclined to remain neutral, at least until the conclusion of the primaries. Despite the long history of mutual animus between Al Gore and Hillary, Gore has resisted the temptation to throw his weight behind Obama; and because of that history, even if he did, it would likely have little effect on her determination to carry on, as Gore is well aware. Edwards, who I’m told at one juncture discussed with Gore the possibility of a joint endorsement, now appears to prefer staying mum for the time being, or, if anything, backing Clinton. And Jimmy Carter has stated unequivocally his intention to refrain from choosing sides.

Arguably the two next most influential Democrats are the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and the Senate Majority Leader, Harry Reid. But Pelosi’s loud advocacy of the view that the superdelegates should vote in line with the pledged delegates belies her pro forma neutrality in the race—thus undercutting any influence she might have with Clinton. “She’s totally in the tank for Obama,” says one Clintonite. “Why would we listen to her?” And while Reid is trying to play the role of honest broker, his mojo in Clintonland is negligible.

No, according to Hillary’s adjutants, the people most likely to have sway with her on this topic are not party elders at all but instead her fiercest loyalists, those who’ve won her trust over the years by dint of their unwavering support. Familiar names from the annals of Clintondom are mentioned: Terry McAuliffe, Vernon Jordan, Rahm Emanuel (likely the only person in this club who is also close to Obama). So, too, are prominent endorsers such as Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell. “If one of her major African-American endorsers, like Stephanie Tubbs-Jones, told her it was time to quit, that would be very powerful,” adds a senior Clinton adviser. Oh, and let us not forget her husband.

For the moment, none of these people, as far as I know, is advising Hillary to fold. They are not idiots and they are not blind—they can read the writing on the wall and do the math as well. But they also believe that, though Clinton’s path to the nomination has narrowed to a cliff walk, it hasn’t been barricaded. If she beats Obama in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Indiana, it may widen again, should the superdelegates start questioning his durability and the potency of his electoral coalition. Or Obama’s candidacy could suddenly blow up in a more spectacular fashion—over further revelations about Wright or some other political IED planted on the roadside ahead.

The question is whether any of those that Clinton trusts are willing to intercede with Hillary if the rancor of the campaign continues to escalate. Despite all the wailing of the party’s Henny Pennys, my own view is that, in the long run, Clinton’s scuffing up of Obama has so far done him more good than harm; it has toughened him, steeled him, and given him a taste, if only a taste, of what he can expect this fall. But Democrats are right to fear that Clinton may find it irresistible to turn her campaign into an exercise in nothing less (and little more) than political manslaughter against Obama. They’re especially right to be worried that she may want to fight on all summer, all the way to the Denver convention—especially with Clinton now talking openly about a floor fight over seating the disputed Florida and Michigan delegations.

Some senior members of Clinton’s campaign have no intention of sticking around if Obama is substantially ahead come June; as much as they’re devoted to their boss, they want nothing to do with a black-bag operation designed to destroy her rival, no matter what the cost. But these same people are also deeply convinced—beyond spin, beyond talking points, to their core—that Obama would be doomed against McCain. And Clinton believes this, too, which is one important reason why she persists despite odds that grow longer each passing day.

Yet, by an irony, Clinton’s grim assessment of Obama’s chances may also be the best cause for hope that she will, sometime between now and the middle of June, find it in herself to leave the stage with a modicum of grace. It may even be a reason, as Walter Mondale’s campaign manager, Bob Beckel, suggested in a column this week, that she winds up filling, against her instincts, the slot as Obama’s veep. For if HRC believes that Obama will lose in November, there can be no doubt that she’s already calculating, in the back of her head, the best way to position herself for 2012. A scorched-earth campaign against Obama is plainly not the way to do that. A classy exit, a show of unity, an act that apparently places party before self: That’s the ticket.

All of which is why party elders aren’t the last best hope for a peaceful resolution of the Obama-Clinton race. The last best hope is that Hillary will eventually come to see yielding as not merely the path to self-preservation, but also as her only route to long-range self-aggrandizement.

[diamond]

I'm not surprised by John Edwards's inaction.

It bespeaks his character; all fluff no substance.

dbs

[U2democrat]

I could totally beat Obama in bowling, and I have a bad shoulder!

Let's see if FYMers can actually have a little sense of humor about this.

Barack Bowl
By Michael Powell


ALTOONA, Pa. — Barack Obama spent Saturday evening in a close encounter with the fierce urgency of a gutter ball.
In search of game, a friendly crowd and really good photo ops, Senator Barack Obama and Senator Robert Casey rolled into Pleasant Valley Lanes here to cheers from patrons, report our faithful press pool reporters. Several bowlers ready to bite into French fries lathered with ketchup and American cheese—it’s a Pennsylvania thing; you wouldn’t understand — stopped mid-munch, put down their beers and watched a presidential candidate walk into their midst.
Mr. Obama takes no small pride in his athleticism but he was back-pedaling from the start. “I just want to point out that the last time I bowled was 30 years ago, when I was 16,” he cautioned the crowd gathering to ask for his autograph and a photo.
Whatever.
Roxanne Hart, a 43-year-old gal from Altoona, asked if he wanted to bowl with her. Mr. Obama and Mr. Casey shed dress shoes for bowling shoes—a blue and white Velcro number for Obama, size 13 ½ — and entered their names into the overhead monitor. It was BAR and BOB against ROX.

Rox won in a walk.
Mr. Obama picked up a ball, cued up all confident-like, and sent the thing into the gutter. “We’re just warming up,” Mr. Obama assured himself, maybe.
So it rolled, one desultory frame after another. Rox hit spare upon spare; Mr. Obama knocked a few pins here and there and announced that his goal was to beat Mr. Casey. “I can’t beat Roxanne,” he said.
Mr. Obama, it turns out, was a weak centrist. His balls rolled down the center of the lane, but much too slowly to knock over more than a half dozen or so pins. “You notice I’m getting better?” he asked.
The patrons kept taking cell phone and camera shots, and urging friends to drive to the bowling alley to catch this scene.
“Let me tell you something,” Obama said to the crowd. “My economic plan is better than my bowling.” A man standing at the next lane called out, “It has to be.”
Mr. Obama laughed and gave him a hug.
Finally, in the seventh frame, Obama made a spare, cleaning up one pin. “Yes I can!” he started chanting after a couple admirers at a nearby lane started it. “Yes I can!”
As to politics, maybe. As to bowling? No, he really can’t.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...0/barack-bowl/

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Haha, cute.

[LemonMelon]

Best campaign idea ever.