verte76
Blue Crack Addict
MrsSpringsteen said:
Yeah, Massah?
US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - The Fifth Installment
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Yeah, Massah?
deep
Blue Crack Addict
Hi Verte
I think we are similar in age
So, I imagine you remember the 90s and the 8 years of the Clinton presidency, first hand.
Do you believe he deserves these types of attacks?
I think we are similar in age
So, I imagine you remember the 90s and the 8 years of the Clinton presidency, first hand.
Do you believe he deserves these types of attacks?
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
deep said:
Yeah, that's stupid and hateful. It's hurting Obama. It pisses me off dammit!
Last edited:
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
deep said:
i think Bill's behavior in South Carolina is behind the anger.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
deep said:
Mark Penn + Those pills =
deep
Blue Crack Addict
verte76 said:
Truth is your state will go Red (GOP) and my state CA will go Blue (Obama).
But you and I are not much different from many people in our age group that think W is the worst president ever.
And it is independents in our group that will have some influence in this election.
People like us in battleground states, FL, PENN, OH, and maybe one or two more states will determine this election.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511 said:
That's right. Obama didn't say that about the Clintons.
verte76
Blue Crack Addict
MrsSpringsteen said:
That's good.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
U2democrat said:
Mark Penn + Those pills =
looks like
he took a double dose here \/
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
My poor, innocent mind 
deep
Blue Crack Addict
U2democrat said:My poor, innocent mind
you've had a year or two of college now
you are allowed some (reasonable) life experiences
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
3 years 
True. I guess my mind isn't so innocent
True. I guess my mind isn't so innocent
deep
Blue Crack Addict
U2democrat said:3 years
wow
at this rate
soon you will be older than me
i'v sold my soul
cheap
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
Before I know it I'll be getting senior discounts
(Get it? I'm going to be a senior next year...
)
(Get it? I'm going to be a senior next year...
)
deep
Blue Crack Addict
U2democrat said:Before I know it I'll be getting senior discounts
careful there,
if this gets out
you may start getting robocalls
from the Hillary campaign
yolland
Forum Moderator
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I could be wrong, but I tend to doubt that Spike Lee intended "Massuh" in the most literal sense, to invoke a thoroughly malignant slavemaster figure. I think the intended association was probably the more generic one of the arrogant, good-ol'-boy white man who's not literally dangerous or intentionally destructive, but has that insulting way of only liking you so long as you fawn over him as he expects, then at the first sign of discontent turns for support to the white folks and says, "Can you believe this ungrateful kid here?" And as a description of an effect--intentional or not--such figures sometimes have on people, there's some truth to it, and also some falsehood to it.
I see the same thing sometimes with fervent women supporters of Hillary. It's maybe a little more subtle because their criticisms of Obama are usually phrased in the same familiar all-pretty-words-and-charisma,-no-substance type of language used by a broader spectrum of Obama critics, only in this case with a particularly notable undertone of resentment, bitterness, and an impression that the speaker seems to feel personally wronged somehow. I understand and recognize the reaction; that's just an image which resonates particularly strongly with women--the lazy, incompetent golden boy who by triggering everyone's warm-fuzzy father-figure cravings vaults past you to secure the position you've dutifully and devotedly worked your butt off for years to earn. And again, as a description of an effect on people, there's some truth to it, and also some falsehood.
This is just what happens when people feel a strong personal identification with what they perceive as their candidate's struggle to secure public respect. But at any rate, as Irvine pointed out, feelings towards these kinds of comments from random supporters aren't worthy things to base one's own voting decisions on.
I see the same thing sometimes with fervent women supporters of Hillary. It's maybe a little more subtle because their criticisms of Obama are usually phrased in the same familiar all-pretty-words-and-charisma,-no-substance type of language used by a broader spectrum of Obama critics, only in this case with a particularly notable undertone of resentment, bitterness, and an impression that the speaker seems to feel personally wronged somehow. I understand and recognize the reaction; that's just an image which resonates particularly strongly with women--the lazy, incompetent golden boy who by triggering everyone's warm-fuzzy father-figure cravings vaults past you to secure the position you've dutifully and devotedly worked your butt off for years to earn. And again, as a description of an effect on people, there's some truth to it, and also some falsehood.
This is just what happens when people feel a strong personal identification with what they perceive as their candidate's struggle to secure public respect. But at any rate, as Irvine pointed out, feelings towards these kinds of comments from random supporters aren't worthy things to base one's own voting decisions on.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
Ah, the voice of reason in FYM. Thanks Yolland, great post 
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Yes perhaps that's what he meant and I get it, but it's still not necessary to use that word. Attention grabbing, yes- and that's how Spike Lee usually gets attention. Especially when he hasn't had a hit movie in how many years? 
Personally I think Senator Obama would not condone what he said. Not that he has to answer for it, but I don't.
Personally I think Senator Obama would not condone what he said. Not that he has to answer for it, but I don't.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
By Roland S. Martin
CNN Contributor
(CNN) -- Sweet Jesus! What has gotten into the Democratic Party when it comes to issues of faith?
On Sunday, CNN will broadcast the Compassion Forum, an event hosted by CNN's Campbell Brown and Newsweek Editor Jon Meacham. It will explore issues of faith and morality with Democratic presidential candidates Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
This is the second time the top Democratic candidates will deal with issues of faith. On June 4, CNN's Soledad O'Brien moderated a forum with the Rev. Jim Wallis' Sojourners Social Justice Ministry as host. That one featured Obama, Clinton and former Sen. John Edwards.
These forums should not be casually overlooked and blown off, because they represent a significant shift in attitude from previous Democratic presidential campaigns. Democrats, in the words of Sen. Joseph Biden after the Sojourners forum, acted more like agnostics -- other would say atheists -- when it came to issues of faith.
For nearly 30 years, Republicans successfully used wedge issues like abortion and homosexuality to rally their base to those social causes and elect candidates who were willing to go to the mat when they came up. Their outreach efforts were strong, consistent and they delivered time and time again. And as long as Democrats were willing to ignore the ever-increasing concerns of people who tied their faith with public policy, the GOP would continue to clean up at the ballot box.
Yet the outreach efforts by Clinton and Obama should serve as an example to all Democratic officeholders that ignoring voters who feel strongly about their faith, and also public policy, will continue to lead to losses.
Sunday's forum, which will be held at Messiah College in Grantham, Pennsylvania, will allow each candidate to speak for 40 minutes on various moral issues, including poverty, global AIDS, climate change and human rights.
These are all vital issues that we should want to hear our presidential candidates discuss at length, and it's time that our debates and discussions with the candidates went beyond the war in Iraq, illegal immigration and terrorism.
While on the surface it looks good for Democrats to embrace those in the faith world, there are some serious potential land mines they are going to have to confront.
I have always maintained that people of faith who are conservative need to move beyond the issues of abortion and homosexuality and broaden what are deemed faith issues. But the Democratic Party is going to have to do the opposite -- that is have some serious discussions as to how it's going to confront social issues and not ignore abortion and homosexuality.
For instance, I got an e-mail last week from several gay party activists who are disturbed that the Rev. James Meeks, founder and pastor of Salem Baptist Church, the second-largest church in Illinois, has endorsed Obama. Why?
Because Meeks opposes abortion and homosexuality. I know him well because I am a member of the same church.
In January, gay supporters of Obama were aghast that his campaign would allow gospel singer Donnie McClurkin to participate in a gospel tour around South Carolina, because he has discussed being a former homosexual who converted to being a heterosexual.
This is no different from gay activists being less than thrilled to see Sen. Hillary Clinton touting the endorsement of the Rev. Harold Mayberry, a Bay Area pastor who opposes gay marriage.
And when several gay bloggers heard that President Bush's spiritual adviser, the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, pastor of Windsor Village United Methodist Church in Houston, Texas -- the largest UMC congregation in the country -- was backing Obama, they also cited his opposition to homosexuality, forcing the campaign to say he would in no way be campaigning on behalf of the candidate. Thus far, they have remained true to that, not making Caldwell available on behalf of the campaign since that endorsement came down three months ago.
In talking with officials from the Obama and Clinton campaigns, I jokingly said that if they were both trying to use only the black pastors who would pass muster by their gay and pro-choice supporters, they might be able to find two in the whole country!
If the Democratic Party is serious about fostering a relationship with the faith community, they are going to have to come to grips with the fact that there are Democrats of faith who are pro-life and against gay marriage, but who are in agreement on other social issues such as the response to the rapid rise of HIV/AIDS and eradicating poverty.
Gay rights and pro-choice activists are clearly not going to back down from advancing their agenda, but they can be assured that people of faith are not going to be silent for the sake of a political party.
What is clear is that in the political realm, there must be an understanding of the secular and theological worlds. And there are clear examples when folks who operate in the secular world want to apply their standards to those in the theological world, and vice versa.
Is there room for people with opposing views on various issues to support either Obama or Clinton? Absolutely. But if either campaign is hell-bent on silencing their faith supporters because of such a disagreement, they risk alienating them, thus depriving the party of a broader constituency to take back the White House.
In other words, ignore the churchgoing folks and you don't stand a prayer of winning.
Roland S. Martin is a nationally award-winning journalist and CNN contributor. Martin is studying to receive his master's degree in Christian communications at Louisiana Baptist University. You can read more of his columns at http://www.rolandsmartin.com/.
CNN Contributor
(CNN) -- Sweet Jesus! What has gotten into the Democratic Party when it comes to issues of faith?
On Sunday, CNN will broadcast the Compassion Forum, an event hosted by CNN's Campbell Brown and Newsweek Editor Jon Meacham. It will explore issues of faith and morality with Democratic presidential candidates Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
This is the second time the top Democratic candidates will deal with issues of faith. On June 4, CNN's Soledad O'Brien moderated a forum with the Rev. Jim Wallis' Sojourners Social Justice Ministry as host. That one featured Obama, Clinton and former Sen. John Edwards.
These forums should not be casually overlooked and blown off, because they represent a significant shift in attitude from previous Democratic presidential campaigns. Democrats, in the words of Sen. Joseph Biden after the Sojourners forum, acted more like agnostics -- other would say atheists -- when it came to issues of faith.
For nearly 30 years, Republicans successfully used wedge issues like abortion and homosexuality to rally their base to those social causes and elect candidates who were willing to go to the mat when they came up. Their outreach efforts were strong, consistent and they delivered time and time again. And as long as Democrats were willing to ignore the ever-increasing concerns of people who tied their faith with public policy, the GOP would continue to clean up at the ballot box.
Yet the outreach efforts by Clinton and Obama should serve as an example to all Democratic officeholders that ignoring voters who feel strongly about their faith, and also public policy, will continue to lead to losses.
Sunday's forum, which will be held at Messiah College in Grantham, Pennsylvania, will allow each candidate to speak for 40 minutes on various moral issues, including poverty, global AIDS, climate change and human rights.
These are all vital issues that we should want to hear our presidential candidates discuss at length, and it's time that our debates and discussions with the candidates went beyond the war in Iraq, illegal immigration and terrorism.
While on the surface it looks good for Democrats to embrace those in the faith world, there are some serious potential land mines they are going to have to confront.
I have always maintained that people of faith who are conservative need to move beyond the issues of abortion and homosexuality and broaden what are deemed faith issues. But the Democratic Party is going to have to do the opposite -- that is have some serious discussions as to how it's going to confront social issues and not ignore abortion and homosexuality.
For instance, I got an e-mail last week from several gay party activists who are disturbed that the Rev. James Meeks, founder and pastor of Salem Baptist Church, the second-largest church in Illinois, has endorsed Obama. Why?
Because Meeks opposes abortion and homosexuality. I know him well because I am a member of the same church.
In January, gay supporters of Obama were aghast that his campaign would allow gospel singer Donnie McClurkin to participate in a gospel tour around South Carolina, because he has discussed being a former homosexual who converted to being a heterosexual.
This is no different from gay activists being less than thrilled to see Sen. Hillary Clinton touting the endorsement of the Rev. Harold Mayberry, a Bay Area pastor who opposes gay marriage.
And when several gay bloggers heard that President Bush's spiritual adviser, the Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, pastor of Windsor Village United Methodist Church in Houston, Texas -- the largest UMC congregation in the country -- was backing Obama, they also cited his opposition to homosexuality, forcing the campaign to say he would in no way be campaigning on behalf of the candidate. Thus far, they have remained true to that, not making Caldwell available on behalf of the campaign since that endorsement came down three months ago.
In talking with officials from the Obama and Clinton campaigns, I jokingly said that if they were both trying to use only the black pastors who would pass muster by their gay and pro-choice supporters, they might be able to find two in the whole country!
If the Democratic Party is serious about fostering a relationship with the faith community, they are going to have to come to grips with the fact that there are Democrats of faith who are pro-life and against gay marriage, but who are in agreement on other social issues such as the response to the rapid rise of HIV/AIDS and eradicating poverty.
Gay rights and pro-choice activists are clearly not going to back down from advancing their agenda, but they can be assured that people of faith are not going to be silent for the sake of a political party.
What is clear is that in the political realm, there must be an understanding of the secular and theological worlds. And there are clear examples when folks who operate in the secular world want to apply their standards to those in the theological world, and vice versa.
Is there room for people with opposing views on various issues to support either Obama or Clinton? Absolutely. But if either campaign is hell-bent on silencing their faith supporters because of such a disagreement, they risk alienating them, thus depriving the party of a broader constituency to take back the White House.
In other words, ignore the churchgoing folks and you don't stand a prayer of winning.
Roland S. Martin is a nationally award-winning journalist and CNN contributor. Martin is studying to receive his master's degree in Christian communications at Louisiana Baptist University. You can read more of his columns at http://www.rolandsmartin.com/.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
08 Apr 2008 12:07 pm
Tomorrow night, according to CBS News's Maria Gavrilovic, Sen. Barack Obama will appear on American Idol's "Idol Gives Back" program via a taped piece.
Here's Obama:
Hello everybody. I’d like to say a few words not just as the father of two young girls who are big American Idol fans, but as someone who cares deeply about what tonight’s show is all about. Whether it’s across the street or around the world, Idol Gives Back is proving that when ordinary people come together, they can do extraordinary things. So I want to commend American Idol for the example they’re setting and the work they’re doing. And I hope that everyone who’s watching will make a contribution to Idol Gives Back, and help make this world a more just, more equal, and more hopeful place to live.
A Clinton spokesperson confirms that Clinton taped a similar segment.
And so did McCain.
Tomorrow night, according to CBS News's Maria Gavrilovic, Sen. Barack Obama will appear on American Idol's "Idol Gives Back" program via a taped piece.
Here's Obama:
Hello everybody. I’d like to say a few words not just as the father of two young girls who are big American Idol fans, but as someone who cares deeply about what tonight’s show is all about. Whether it’s across the street or around the world, Idol Gives Back is proving that when ordinary people come together, they can do extraordinary things. So I want to commend American Idol for the example they’re setting and the work they’re doing. And I hope that everyone who’s watching will make a contribution to Idol Gives Back, and help make this world a more just, more equal, and more hopeful place to live.
A Clinton spokesperson confirms that Clinton taped a similar segment.
And so did McCain.
2861U2
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
The supposedly colorblind Obama campaign at work...
"We Need More White People"
April 09, 2008 8:47 AM
At a Michelle Obama event, reporters from the Carnegie-Mellon University student newspaper "observed one event coordinator say to another, 'Get me more white people, we need more white people.' To an Asian girl sitting in the back row, one coordinator said, 'We're moving you, sorry. It's going to look so pretty, though.'
"'I didn't know they would say, "We need a white person here,"' said attendee and senior psychology major Shayna Watson, who sat in the crowd behind Mrs. Obama. 'I understood they would want a show of diversity, but to pick up people and to reseat them, I didn't know it would be so outright.'"
--------
Why do they need more white people? I thought race wasn't supposed to be important.
"We Need More White People"
April 09, 2008 8:47 AM
At a Michelle Obama event, reporters from the Carnegie-Mellon University student newspaper "observed one event coordinator say to another, 'Get me more white people, we need more white people.' To an Asian girl sitting in the back row, one coordinator said, 'We're moving you, sorry. It's going to look so pretty, though.'
"'I didn't know they would say, "We need a white person here,"' said attendee and senior psychology major Shayna Watson, who sat in the crowd behind Mrs. Obama. 'I understood they would want a show of diversity, but to pick up people and to reseat them, I didn't know it would be so outright.'"
--------
Why do they need more white people? I thought race wasn't supposed to be important.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
If Obama does not win
it is because too many people are still racist.
it is because too many people are still racist.
2861U2
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
deep said:
Yep. I guarantee that will be the argument if he loses- "I guess America isn't ready for a black president."
What a stupid, stupid article.
Do you think that the other campaigns don't do that? Do you think that the people standing in view of the cameras are there randomly? That they don't make sure that there are some visible minorities present, enough women, etc? How is this any different? It's offensive when a white person is a token minority?
Do you think that the other campaigns don't do that? Do you think that the people standing in view of the cameras are there randomly? That they don't make sure that there are some visible minorities present, enough women, etc? How is this any different? It's offensive when a white person is a token minority?
2861U2
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
anitram said:
I'm sure they do. But I wouldn't have expected it from the Obamas. Apparently I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Obama is supposed to be such a unifier of diversity and skin color should be totally irrelevant.
GET ME MORE TYPICAL WHITE PEOPLE!
If this had been McCain or Hillary, it would be the number one story on Olbermann, I can guarantee that.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
anitram said:
"we need more black kids ..."
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
2861U2 said:
you don't know the first thing about PR, do you.
U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
Irvine511 said:
Exactly. As someone who has worked at campaign events for several years, the people who stand behind the candidate are generally not there by accident. It's one of the gritty details of campaigning that people don't usually think about, but it happens all the time whether the candidate is black, white, young, old, etc. If you don't like it, too bad, there are legitimate psychological factors at work.
2861U2
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
www.presidentelectionpolls.com
Updated: 4/9/08
Barack Obama- 244
John McCain- 285
Hillary Clinton- 256
John McCain- 277
Updated: 4/9/08
Barack Obama- 244
John McCain- 285
Hillary Clinton- 256
John McCain- 277
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