US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part III

[phillyfan26]

Continue discussion, guys.

[2861U2]

Originally posted by phillyfan26
Congratulations on proving to a national audience that you're a bunch of bigots, Republican candidates.

You know, I'm getting pretty tired of seeing that word in here. Since when is it a crime to have convictions? Are they bigots because they have an opinion different that yours, phillyfan? Aren't you then, by definition, a bigot yourself?

Bigot = a person intolerant of opinions different that their own

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't think it's an "opinion" to deny any human being equal rights, employment,military service, etc. on the basis of sexual orientation or any other innate human quality and/or trait. Whether or not your opinion is that it is not innate and is morally wrong somehow, that doesn't give you the right to do that.

[BVS]

Originally posted by 2861U2


Bigot = a person intolerant of opinions different that their own

If that "opinion" is intolerance how is one to be tolerant of that?

What kind of "conviction" makes one think homosexuals can't serve their country?

[phillyfan26]

Originally posted by 2861U2
You know, I'm getting pretty tired of seeing that word in here. Since when is it a crime to have convictions? Are they bigots because they have an opinion different that yours, phillyfan? Aren't you then, by definition, a bigot yourself?

Bigot = a person intolerant of opinions different that their own

Are you nuts?

First, I'm going to stop you throwing around the word "opinion" when it comes to issue of homosexual rights.

Liberals and conservatives in general differ on issues. And there are merits to both sides, most of the time. Taxes, trade, abortion, etc. All issues with legitimate reasoning on both sides. And each side has OPINIONS. Yes.

But on the issue of homosexual rights, there's no opinions. It's right and wrong. And the people (usually conservatives) who take these stances are WRONG. They don't have differing opinions. They're wrong. They deny civil rights to human beings. They're wrong. They're bigots. There should be no debate, no issue here. They're flat out wrong.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by 2861U2


You know, I'm getting pretty tired of seeing that word in here. Since when is it a crime to have convictions? Are they bigots because they have an opinion different that yours, phillyfan? Aren't you then, by definition, a bigot yourself?

Bigot = a person intolerant of opinions different that their own

in order to be fair, i will actually come out and say that i'm willing to bet that most of the Republican candidates aren't, themselves, bigoted against gays or, if the immigration frenzy is any indication, Mexicans.

i am willing to say that they are using bigotry against gay people and Mexicans to get votes.

that was the other striking thing about the debate, for me. the fervor regarding immigration. and i feel quite certain that much of it is genuinely racist -- perhaps unknowingly racist, would there be that much of an issue if there were all these Norwegians streaming across the border?

[2861U2]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar



What kind of "conviction" makes one think homosexuals can't serve their country?

Don't ask me. Like I said earlier, I disagree with conventional Republican "no gays in the military" belief.

[2861U2]

Originally posted by Irvine511


would there be that much of an issue if there were all these Norwegians streaming across the border?

YES! It's not a racism thing! It's a national security thing! It's about obeying our own laws!

[BVS]

Originally posted by 2861U2


Don't ask me. Like I said earlier, I disagree with conventional Republican "no gays in the military" belief.

But it is "conviction" that makes them deny other rights?

So they can die for this country but aren't good enough to be equal to you?

Wow, that "opinion" sucks, how does one look at that opinion and not see bigotry?

[MrsSpringsteen]

Then how come immigration is suddenly all about Mexicans? No one wants to build a fence across the Atlantic Ocean, do they?

[BVS]

Originally posted by 2861U2


YES! It's not a racism thing! It's a national security thing! It's about obeying our own laws!

They don't care when it's Canadians.

[2861U2]

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
Then how come immigration is suddenly all about Mexicans? No one wants to build a fence across the Atlantic Ocean, do they?

Because an incredible majority of people here illegally came via the south. If hypothetically millions of people enter here illegally via the east, then the problem is equally as serious, and 9/11 was a testament to this.

[Vincent Vega]

Didn't they come legally to the US?

[2861U2]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


They don't care when it's Canadians.

Well I do. I don't care if you're black, white, brown, Mexican, Swedish, Australian, whatever. I want zero illegal immigration.

[BVS]

Originally posted by 2861U2

If hypothetically millions of people enter here illegally via the east, then the problem is equally as serious, and 9/11 was a testament to this.

[2861U2]

Originally posted by Vincent Vega


Didn't they come legally to the US?

A handful did not.

[phillyfan26]

But it's not just about your opinion specifically that we're worried about. It's your party! The guys you are defending on many of these issues!

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by 2861U2


YES! It's not a racism thing! It's a national security thing! It's about obeying our own laws!

i genuinely disagree with you. i really do.

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by 2861U2


Because an incredible majority of people here illegally came via the south. If hypothetically millions of people enter here illegally via the east, then the problem is equally as serious, and 9/11 was a testament to this.

so the people who flew the airplanes into the WTC were illegal immigrants?

[2861U2]

Originally posted by Irvine511




so the people who flew the airplanes into the WTC were illegal immigrants?

5 of the 19 violated federal immigration laws. They were illegal aliens, and if the police had known that when 4 of them were stopped for speeding, they could have been arrested.