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Old 01-23-2008, 09:19 AM   #821
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I agree. I had always loved Bill Clinton as most democrats do, but this campaign has been so vile and disgusting, it shows they will do ANYTHING to win. I'm afraid to think how far they would go.
There is something blatantly distasteful about their campaign; I agree.

At the same time, like I said before, if Hillary is the nominee, do you think she would ever allow anyone to Swiftboat her? Yarite. The Clintons are not above playing dirty and considering the behaviour and tactics of the Republicans during elections, if nothing else, you know that the Clintons are going to either hit first or hit back hard. Not my first choice, but I'm also sick to death of the Democrats acting like feckless losers (yes, Nancy and Harry, you especially).
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:24 AM   #822
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Would she allow herself to get Swiftboated? No. My fear is that she would do the Swiftboating first, and it could very well backfire.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:50 AM   #823
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My first post on a U2 site and its about politics! Bono would be proud, I guess. Here's my take: our faith, religion, values can influence our positions on political issues both as citizens and as presidential candidates. We can appeal to the values of Christianity when we speak of equal opportunity, affordable health care, etc. We can talk about our faith as all the candidates do. Where we get off track is when we try and impose, legally, through the political system, these views on others as a way of limiting their conduct.(gay marriage, abortion,contraception, etc) If, as a Catholic, I am against abortion, I should talk about what I believe is the best way to reduce abortions without imposing my views: pre natal care, child care, good jobs, and all those things that mothers will consider in making that choice. I could be a good Catholic and DISAGREE strongly with the church on condoms. If their goal is to not have abortions, contraception is a no brainer, as our Bishops and priests(I'm from Boston, trust me!) can not even be abstinent, so how could they expect the rest of us to be? We can persuade and lead with our values, rather than impose them on a majority that does not share our view. Huckabee doesnt get this, most of the right does not, and that is dangerous and threatening to the moderate pro life/moderate pro choice consensus that is emerging on prevention, adoption, child care,etc. We are actually making progress on this issue, tremendous progress even since 2004 election!We do not need a Huckabee to come along and get both sides back in the trenches, so to speak. Pro lifers will be 'nazis' again and pro choice people will be 'baby killers' again. The rhetoric will rise to raise money, and the country will continue to be divided on this issue. We need someone w/ faith and pragmatic understanding of our system. I personally liked Joe Biden, but hes out. All I know is on these issues, we cant afford Huckabee.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:58 AM   #824
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Very true, antitram, Hillary is not my first choice either, she was 4th after Biden, Richardson, Edwards. However, the media ignored my top 2 and Edwards is as much of an underachiever as he is a genuine and likable guy with a truly great American life story. So I'm looking to Hillary, as I know the Clintons at least are fighters. Obama has no experience, either with policy or politics, and just NEVER impressed me on anything. The Republicans would bowl him right over in November. Hillary faces a tough road for sure, and shes far from perfect, but at least she'll fight and if she gets in, will do her damn best as I believe she truly does care about people.
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Old 01-23-2008, 09:59 AM   #825
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Originally posted by anitram


There is something blatantly distasteful about their campaign; I agree.

At the same time, like I said before, if Hillary is the nominee, do you think she would ever allow anyone to Swiftboat her? Yarite. The Clintons are not above playing dirty and considering the behaviour and tactics of the Republicans during elections, if nothing else, you know that the Clintons are going to either hit first or hit back hard. Not my first choice, but I'm also sick to death of the Democrats acting like feckless losers (yes, Nancy and Harry, you especially).


yeah, this is the conundrum.

they really would slit throats to win. but this would seem to guarantee another 4-8 years of bitter partisanship and rancor, and it seems to me that Obama (and even McCain) are ways to get beyond all this boomer narcissism and actually move the country forward. McCain has and will work with Democrats, and though i'll never forgive him for Iraq or for rimming the Bushies in 2004, i can see the other side working with him whereas i cannot see any Republican publicly working with HRC.

i don't care how much she knows. i don't care how much experience she has. it's all negligible if you can't get other people to do what you want them to do.

sure, it would be entertaining to watch the Clintons destroy the Republican candidate after they're done with Obama. i'm quite sure there's an element of political revenge for what the Republican Congress put them through in the 1990s with everything from Whitewater to the Starr report. there will be blood, make no mistake.

but i'm not sure that's good for us, or for anyone.
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:02 AM   #826
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You better be voting in the Feb. 12 primary
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:03 AM   #827
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McCain has and will work with Democrats, and though i'll never forgive him for Iraq or for rimming the Bushies in 2004, i can see the other side working with him whereas i cannot see any Republican publicly working with HRC.

I think you're right but at the same time I really feel like McCain has managed to bamboozle otherwise thinking people into believing that he's really some kind of maverick. I think he's full of shit, to be honest and his record is sketchy when you look at it closely. But the media has fed us this line enough that people have started to believe it.
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:31 AM   #828
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McCain really did sell out in 2004. Instead of supporting his friend and colleague, he literally kissed up to the guy who ended his run in 2000 by playing the dirtiest of dirty politics. Since then it's been Bob Jones, Falwell, he abandoned his Episcopal church for the Baptist, etc. etc.
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Old 01-23-2008, 10:42 AM   #829
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Hillary always sort of irritated me. I was always behind Bill, no matter what, but lately he's lost me, too.

The past week or so has really made me wish the Clintons would just disappear.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:44 AM   #830
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They've said on the news the past few days, "Democrats are just now realizing what an annoying liar Bill Clinton is, something the Republicans have known for years." So true, and so fun to watch everyone turn on him all of a sudden.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:54 AM   #831
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They've said on the news the past few days, "Democrats are just now realizing what an annoying liar Bill Clinton is, something the Republicans have known for years." So true, and so fun to watch everyone turn on him all of a sudden.
Meh. I think most of the general public (those with brains, anyhow) knew he was a liar, but it was his charm that led to him getting away with it.

Suffice to say, charm has not been one of Slick Willie's strong points as of late.
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Old 01-23-2008, 11:56 AM   #832
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They've said on the news the past few days, "Democrats are just now realizing what an annoying liar Bill Clinton is, something the Republicans have known for years." So true, and so fun to watch everyone turn on him all of a sudden.
What news outlets are making this quote?
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:00 PM   #833
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Meh. I think most of the general public (those with brains, anyhow) knew he was a liar, but it was his charm that led to him getting away with it.


that, and his extraordinary political skills and the fact that he generally pushed good policies and had a successful presidency that involved peace and prosperity (relatively).
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:01 PM   #834
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What news outlets are making this quote?


there's a very interesting op-ed in the WSJ about this.

i actually thought it was pretty fair.
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:11 PM   #835
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there's a very interesting op-ed in the WSJ about this.

i actually thought it was pretty fair.
Calling him a liar?


I've been out of my normal environment for two weeks so I've had little access to the news. I think what LarryMullen's_POPAngel said was very true. We all knew Bill wasn't telling the whole truth, in fact we kind of accept that with politicians. Of course some lies are acceptable by politicians and some aren't. I mean the world knows Bush is a liar as well.

But what I have noticed is that Bill isn't as diplomatic as he used to be, remember last election when Bill would say, "am I the only one who really likes both these canidates?" That and his charm have been lost as of late, maybe too few naps.
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:19 PM   #836
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What news outlets are making this quote?

Well I mostly watch FNC, so I've heard a few analysts on there mention it. I think I heard someone say it on CNN, too.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:00 PM   #837
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there's a very interesting op-ed in the WSJ about this.

i actually thought it was pretty fair.

WSJ ??

pretty fair ??


I think it is safe to include them with the


Fair and Balanced types.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:01 PM   #838
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I've never been a big Bill Clinton fan at any point.

My first memory of anything political was his scandal (I was six or seven), so ... never liked him after that.
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:04 PM   #839
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WSJ ??

pretty fair ??


I think it is safe to include them with the


Fair and Balanced types.


check it out yourself: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1201...googlenews_wsj
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:16 PM   #840
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Obama will lose if he doesn't fight as dirty as the Clintons.

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